indoors

[ptonsparky]

Define "indoors".

Installation instructions for a small HMI I have used in the past states:

"Each model is rated NEMA 4/4X, IP-65 (when mounted correctly, for indoor use only)".

Is inside a typical pump panel enclosure, or similar, "indoors". Ignore operating temperature limits.

 

[pfalcon]

I don't believe there's a real indoor definition. I typically stick with "not exposed to weather" and "regulated temperature". Where regulated just means reasonably consistent temperature and humidity control as opposed to what the wife likes. So it might be 60F all winter and 85F all summer. But it's not 85F during the day and 50F at night.

 

[John120/240]

To me "indoors" implies located inside of a structure, such as your home, office building.

These both would be conditioned spaces, but that is not your concern. Inside a pump panel

I do not know.

 

[kwired]

Define "indoors".

Installation instructions for a small HMI I have used in the past states:

"Each model is rated NEMA 4/4X, IP-65 (when mounted correctly, for indoor use only)".

Is inside a typical pump panel enclosure, or similar, "indoors". Ignore operating temperature limits.

Seems to me your equipment should be labeled NEMA 12 instead of NEMA 4 if it is not for outdoor use.

http://www.nema.org/Products/Documents/nema-enclosure-types.pdf

 

[pfalcon]

The NEMA rating they picked probably has to do with how the HMI seals to the enclosure. It maintains the 4/4X rating for the seals.
The indoor use only marking probably has to do with how well the electronics deal with rapid temperature changes and such. Or maybe it's a touch-screen that might activate in a hail storm.

 

[petersonra]

AB Panelviews are labeled this way.

It is rated as 4 and 4X as for its ability to resist corrosion and that it is water tight.

As I understand it, the issue is that the touchscreen used is susceptable to degradation from UV so can't be put in direct sunlight.

 

[petersonra]

Seems to me your equipment should be labeled NEMA 12 instead of NEMA 4 if it is not for outdoor use.

http://www.nema.org/Products/Documents/nema-enclosure-types.pdf

It is NOT an enclosure, therefore it does not have an enclosure rating.

It is evaluated somewhat like conduit fittings are evaluated - by how well it seals the opening in the enclosure. If it is listed as type 4/4X, it means that it will seal up the opening in a type 4/4x enclosure so that the end result does not compromise the type 4/4X enclosure.

 

[kwired]

It is NOT an enclosure, therefore it does not have an enclosure rating.

It is evaluated somewhat like conduit fittings are evaluated - by how well it seals the opening in the enclosure. If it is listed as type 4/4X, it means that it will seal up the opening in a type 4/4x enclosure so that the end result does not compromise the type 4/4X enclosure.

And what would be wrong with listing it as a type 12, instead of type 4 since they don't want it used outdoors?

I still think it is an enclosure and/or enclosure accessory to some degree. Not only does it seal between itself and another enclosure, it also seals out the environment from entering the HMI itself.

 

[petersonra]

And what would be wrong with listing it as a type 12, instead of type 4 since they don't want it used outdoors?

I still think it is an enclosure and/or enclosure accessory to some degree. Not only does it seal between itself and another enclosure, it also seals out the environment from entering the HMI itself.

because type 4/4x means something that type 12 does not. 4 means it passes the spray test and 4x passes the corrosion test. 12 is just the dust test.

If you look at UL50 (the standard for industrial enclosures) it is very clear that it cannot be an enclosure since it just plain does not meet the definition of an enclosure.

because it is not an enclosure it cannot be listed to UL50. these things are listed to UL508 as industrial control equipment (not 508a, BTW).

as I understand it, UL50 includes some language that defines how components that are mounted through a wall or door of an industrial control enclosure have to perform to be marked by type.

 

[Jraef]

AB Panelviews are labeled this way.

It is rated as 4 and 4X as for its ability to resist corrosion and that it is water tight.

As I understand it, the issue is that the touchscreen used is susceptable to degradation from UV so can't be put in direct sunlight.

That's exactly what it means. It qualifies for installation into a NEMA 4 or 4X enclusure but is NOT intended to be exposed to direct sunlight / UV. The thermoplastic they use on the display screen to protect if from water entry is not UV stablized and will decompose in sunlight. Common problem with HIM screens of all sorts, because the UV stabilization process makes clear plastic not so clear any more and relatively low contrast LCDs get impossible to read through it.