State Fire Marshal and polarity tester.

[ptonsparky]

Guys were on the job when the Deputy Fire Marshal walked thru with a standard device for testing polarity of recepts and he was using it. What??? Other than being State employees they are different entities. This typical for other areas?

 

[Speshulk]

No idea what you're asking.

 

[480sparky]

I think most areas consider private-sector electricans and State Fire Marshal employees as seperate entities.

 

[ptonsparky]

No idea what you're asking.

Sorry. Mind Reading 101 is not required most places.

I should have stated that State Electrical and the State Fire Marshall are different entitles.

 

[jumper]

I should have stated that State Electrical and the State Fire Marshall are different entitles.

States vary in the different responsibilities of the depts.

Some places are separate, others not. Some are a bit mixed.

Some electrical inspection depts are under the mandate of the fire marshall.

In some states inspectors review new work, but fire marshalls can write up current violations that pose a hazard to safety.

There is no one answer, but a fire marshall testing newly installed receptacles is a bit odd IMO.

 

[augie47]

In Tennessee, the State electrical inspectors are employeed by the Fire Marshal's office.

 

[jumper]

In Tennessee, the State electrical inspectors are employeed by the Fire Marshal's office.

Yeah, but I heard that is required because Little Bill works in Tenn.............

But then again, I am such a hack I got the feds inspecting my work.....:angel:

 

[480sparky]

In Tennessee, the State electrical inspectors are employeed by the Fire Marshal's office.

Same in Iowa.

The top-tier entity is the Iowa Department of Public Safety. This includes the State Patrol, Division of Criminal Investigation, State Fire Marshall Division, Division of Narcatics Enforcement, et al.

The Iowa Electrical Examining Board is a division of the Fire Marshal Division.

 

[jwelectric]

Here in NC the state electrical inspectors work for the Department of Insurance which is a division of the Office of the State Fire Marshall.

State electrical inspectors are charged with doing electrical inspections on all state owned property and working with local inspection departments to ensure that NC has the best inspection departments of the country.
Long live our Chief State Electrical Inspector, hip, hip, hooray (sais three times)

 

[iwire]

Pretty much the same in Mass and RI as well.

 

[kwired]

Did you ask him what he would do, and under what authority, code, etc. he would have the ability to do anything about it if one tested wrong?

I bet he could not even tell you what NEC section would be violated if he found one that was wrong.

I don't get too involved with Fire Marshal's inspectors very often, but I must say from what I have observed, they are not consistent at all as compared to State Electrical Division. Even same inspector will not be consistent from one installation to another.

The Fire Marshal's office in NE has different guys that cover different things, like one guy pretty much only looks at things like egress, fire rated construction type things, maybe the need for fire sprinkler systems, but not necessarily the actual inspection of a sprinkler system, then you have guys that only inspect fuel handling and dispensing and other similar installations. They may know some electrical but generally do not get involved with electrical - that is for the electrical inspectors.

I have been on more than one job where the fuel piping guys have to wait for Fire marshal, and he must watch them do certain tasks to ensure they are done correctly. And these are guys that are supposed to be professionals, and have gone through certification and licensing just like many other professionals. Glad they don't make electrical inspectors watch every move I make when doing certain tasks. How would you like it if you needed a life saving surgery immediately and the hospital said, sorry we can't perform your operation right now because there is no state inspector currently available to ensure your procedure is done correctly, you are going to have to wait until 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM on a non holiday weekday, and even then we need to look at scheduling of the inspector, someone else may be in line to be inspected first.:roll:

 

[fmtjfw]

IN West Virginia

IN West Virginia

State Fire Marshal's Office licenses Electrical Inspectors, Home Inspectors, and Electricians. They perform plans reviews of many structures. They are the ONLY inspection authority for State and State subordinate entities (counties, schools, colleges, universities ...). They perform fire cause investigations on all fatalities, including electrical aspects (often contracted out to experts). Also investigate suspected arsons and major fires.

The Fire Marshals outrank the US Secret Service when it come to life safety at venues the US President attends.

In WV if they want to check an outlet, I'd not interfere.

 

[kwired]

In WV if they want to check an outlet, I'd not interfere.

And I would still want a reference to what code or standard is in violation, before I just let them tell me to change something. The "I am a god" complex is not valid enough for me. They have to play by rules just like anyone else does. So does the President, he just is in a higher profile position, but everything he does is scrutinized by pretty much anybody.

 

[Hv&Lv]

And I would still want a reference to what code or standard is in violation, before I just let them tell me to change something. The "I am a god" complex is not valid enough for me. They have to play by rules just like anyone else does. So does the President, he just is in a higher profile position, but everything he does is scrutinized by pretty much anybody.

Yea, that sounds good. You can ask for anything you want, and you don't have to change what they want, but nothing else will happen on the job or the building until they are satisfied.

Sometimes it is best to pick your battles rather than fight them all...

 

[kwired]

Yea, that sounds good. You can ask for anything you want, and you don't have to change what they want, but nothing else will happen on the job or the building until they are satisfied.

Sometimes it is best to pick your battles rather than fight them all...

That don't mean I will not fix a reversed polarity receptacle, just because he is the one that found it, but if I feel the guy has overstepped his authority, just letting him get away with it isn't right either, he needs to be set straight, I will proceed with an attempt to do so.

I sure would love to see the inexperienced idiot that wants to be in control use one of those GFCI testers on a receptacle that has no equipment ground, and see if they are stupid enough to press the GFCI test button while touching the metal weatherproof cover. I would gladly LMAO right in front of them for being such a know it all.

 

[fmtjfw]

Possibilities:

Possibilities:

And I would still want a reference to what code or standard is in violation, before I just let them tell me to change something. The "I am a god" complex is not valid enough for me. They have to play by rules just like anyone else does. So does the President, he just is in a higher profile position, but everything he does is scrutinized by pretty much anybody.

201.8
406.4 All parts

The citations would be the same as from any other electrical inspector.

I'm somewhat confused by you reaction to "just another electrical inspector"?

 

[fmtjfw]

That don't mean I will not fix a reversed polarity receptacle, just because he is the one that found it, but if I feel the guy has overstepped his authority, just letting him get away with it isn't right either, he needs to be set straight, I will proceed with an attempt to do so.

I sure would love to see the inexperienced idiot that wants to be in control use one of those GFCI testers on a receptacle that has no equipment ground, and see if they are stupid enough to press the GFCI test button while touching the metal weatherproof cover. I would gladly LMAO right in front of them for being such a know it all.

They are not overstepping their authority in WV. Actually all most all inspectors in WV derive their authority by being licensed by the Fire Marshal and are enforcing the various codes, including NPFA 70 that are adopted by the Fire Marshal on behalf of the State.

As to point 2. you use a 3-wire to 2-wire adapter and connect the ground lead on the adapter to a real ground (maybe trail around a piece of THHN back to it.

It's never a good idea to underestimate the inspector. Especially the one who has the power to shut down the job or deny the occupancy permit. I can refer you to some County Superintendents of School who exhibited that attitude.

 

[kwired]

They are not overstepping their authority in WV. Actually all most all inspectors in WV derive their authority by being licensed by the Fire Marshal and are enforcing the various codes, including NPFA 70 that are adopted by the Fire Marshal on behalf of the State.

As to point 2. you use a 3-wire to 2-wire adapter and connect the ground lead on the adapter to a real ground (maybe trail around a piece of THHN back to it.

It's never a good idea to underestimate the inspector. Especially the one who has the power to shut down the job or deny the occupancy permit. I can refer you to some County Superintendents of School who exhibited that attitude.

Please, be real here.

A county superintendent of school, just how familiar does anyone expect them to be with electrical theory and codes? When they have an issue with codes it is generally all about cost, not what the real intent of the code is. Show them the cost of non compliance and a lawsuit because someone was injured or killed and they begin to understand faster, but cost is still the driving factor.

I can refer you to a county attorney that doesn't have much respect for such codes, yet when an inspector wants to prosecute someone for non compliance with codes and other AHJ enforced laws, guess who they are generally going to talk to open such case?

An electrician and an electrical inspector and not a general fire inspector debating over the rules is not even close the same thing. Both are supposed to have enough knowledge of what things are that their debate is on an entirely different level than that of the school superintendent or the general fire inspector.

A general fire inspector may know enough to plug in a polarity tester, and may know that it is not acceptable, but it is likely he doesn't even know what sections of NFPA 70 are in violation or even how to find them without spending hours reading. On top of that he probably doesn't even know exactly what hazards may be introduced or the fact that in some instances it really is not much of a hazard at all.

 

[jwelectric]

Here the inspectors that work for the OSFM/DOI spend hours teaching the NEC and amendments to the North Carolina Electrical Code. I don?t think any one of them would have a problem telling someone what section of the code applies to their findings.

As I had one tell me once, ?I think that the one who doesn?t know the code is the one who made the mistake in the first place. If they had have known the code there would have been nothing for me to find?.

 

[jumper]

Gee whiz, a whole lotta fuss over a fire marshall.

I will take a fire marshall over a health dept. inspector any day.

In VA, I dealt with FM's all the time and most were reasonable; however, the health inspectors tended to never budge an inch.