CA code on bathroom GFCIs

[darrell_14]

I was under the impression that you could tie multiple bathroom GFCIs together on the same circuit, even if they were in different bathrooms. Is this true? I had an inspector tell me today that you can only put multiple GFCIs in the same bathroom on a circuit and that each bathroom had to have a dedicated GFCI circuit for the GFCI in that bathroom ony. What does the code read?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The inspector is incorrect. You have 2 options. You can tie all outlets in one bathroom to one circuit or you can tie multiple receptacle outlets in numerous bathroom to one circuit.

 

[Ponchik]

210.11 (C)(3)

(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at
least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have
no other outlets.
Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same bathroom
shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2).

 

[cowboyjwc]

I agree that the inspector is incorrect.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

We are assuming there isn't any local amendments to the NEC

 

[mhanson]

210.11 (C)(3)

(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at
least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have
no other outlets.
Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same bathroom
shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2).

I can understand the Inspector's view of this code section. 210.11 (C)(3) does not mention multiple bathrooms are allowed on this 120v 20amp branch circuit, It merely states that this branch circuit "shall be provided to supply bahtroom receptacle outlet(s)."...

However, I must say it's always been my understanding that multiple bathrooms are allowed to share One 120v 20amp branch circuit providing no other outlets are served.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I can understand the Inspector's view of this code section. 210.11 (C)(3) does not mention multiple bathrooms are allowed on this 120v 20amp branch circuit, It merely states that this branch circuit "shall be provided to supply bahtroom receptacle outlet(s)."...

However, I must say it's always been my understanding that multiple bathrooms are allowed to share One 120v 20amp branch circuit providing no other outlets are served.

Wouldn't the exception give credence to that fact that the 20 amp circuit can supply more than one bathroom....?

 

[mhanson]

Wouldn't the exception give credence to that fact that the 20 amp circuit can supply more than one bathroom....?

Dennis,
Maybe this is why I remember that its OK to feed receptacles in multiple bathrooms on a single 20amp circuit.
However 210.11 (C)(3) on the surface does not appear to allow for multiple bathrooms.
Maybe this is poorly written?

I must say that I would never design an installation where multiple bathroom receptacles are fed from one 20amp branch circuit.
This most definitely will lead to problems. ( One typical hair dryer utilizes 1,875watts ) as soon as you get Mother and daugher in bathrooms at the same time, guess what, Overload.

Remember that the NEC does not necessarily provide for an efficient, convenient, or adequate installation.

 

[Ponchik]

I must say that I would never design an installation where multiple bathroom receptacles are fed from one 20amp branch circuit. This most definitely will lead to problems. ( One typical hair dryer utilizes 1,875watts ) as soon as you get Mother and daugher in bathrooms at the same time, guess what, Overload.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[captainwireman]

From the 2010 California Electrical Code


Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets.70-48
Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2).

I read this as one 20-ampere circuit SHALL be provided. Additional circuits MAY be provided. I don't see anything specific for each bathroom.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Yep that is the way it was done when I worked in California.

 

[mhanson]

From the 2010 California Electrical Code

I read this as one 20-ampere circuit SHALL be provided. Additional circuits MAY be provided. I don't see anything specific for each bathroom.

I agree, However the question is not how many circuits to the bathroom, but how many bathrooms to the circuit.

I guess the question is how 210.11 (C)(3) is worded. The sections title is "Bathroom Branch Circuits".

I can see how the inspector from the original queston can understand this section to mean One Bathroom must be supplied by at least One 20-ampere branch circuit, and will not allow this circuit to share additional Bathrooms.
even though I don't completely agree, I am sympathetic to his position.

According to Mike Holt's "Understanding the NEC" This single 20amp branch circuit can supply as many bathrooms as you like providing no other outlets, such as bathroom lighting outlets or receptacles in other rooms are served.
I can't say as I agree.

 

[Ponchik]

I agree, However the question is not how many circuits to the bathroom, but how many bathrooms to the circuit. As many as you want and still per code.


I can't say as I agree.

I don't agree either and I won't install per minimum code either.

 

[George Stolz]

I must say that I would never design an installation where multiple bathroom receptacles are fed from one 20amp branch circuit.
This most definitely will lead to problems. ( One typical hair dryer utilizes 1,875watts ) as soon as you get Mother and daugher in bathrooms at the same time, guess what, Overload.

And guess what, overloads are protected against by circuit breakers. People can overload any branch circuit, even with a single receptacle on it.

The code clearly allows you to supply as many bathrooms as you want from the required circuit.

If you decide you would like to provide a dedicated circuit for each bathroom, feel free.

Unless all houses in your area come with a mother and a daughter preinstalled, your concerns are a little bit exaggerated. We have no idea how customers will use our wiring, even when we get to meet them in person. We can have a better idea by talking to them, but nothing is ever set in stone.

I have put all the bathroom receptacles on a circuit in the past, as well as dedicating a bathroom or a floor to their own. We are free to do as we see fit based on whatever intuition we have. It's shortsighted to ignore the code, and ignore options.

 

[iwire]

th a mother and a daughter preinstalled, your concerns are a little bit exaggerated. We have no idea how customers will use our wiring, even when we get to meet them in person.

I live with a wife, along with 12 and 14 year old girls, not much hair dryer action but when they do use the hair dryer it is almost anyplace but the bathroom. You just can't predict how people will use things.

It's shortsighted to ignore the code, and ignore options.

I agree, considering the highly competive nature of our business being locked into a certain way of doing things just because you prefer it can cost you.

 

[mhanson]

And guess what, overloads are protected against by circuit breakers. People can overload any branch circuit, even with a single receptacle on it.

The code clearly allows you to supply as many bathrooms as you want from the required circuit.

If you decide you would like to provide a dedicated circuit for each bathroom, feel free.

Unless all houses in your area come with a mother and a daughter preinstalled, your concerns are a little bit exaggerated. We have no idea how customers will use our wiring, even when we get to meet them in person. We can have a better idea by talking to them, but nothing is ever set in stone.

I have put all the bathroom receptacles on a circuit in the past, as well as dedicating a bathroom or a floor to their own. We are free to do as we see fit based on whatever intuition we have. It's shortsighted to ignore the code, and ignore options.

George, I couldn't agree with you more, every situation dictates an individualized electrical installation, some situations may even require us to make use of a "Minimum Requirement"

Obviously the Inspector mentioned has the foresite to see a looming problem. It's not uncommon for me to see in a single bathroom, the Hairdreyer, curling Iron, and the electric curlers all plugged in at the same time.
As we all know the circuit breakers are there to protect the house wiring, try to convince Mrs. homeowner that this is OK and she shouldn't be concerned about that tripping circuit breaker.

 

[kwired]

George, I couldn't agree with you more, every situation dictates an individualized electrical installation, some situations may even require us to make use of a "Minimum Requirement"

Obviously the Inspector mentioned has the foresite to see a looming problem. It's not uncommon for me to see in a single bathroom, the Hairdreyer, curling Iron, and the electric curlers all plugged in at the same time.
As we all know the circuit breakers are there to protect the house wiring, try to convince Mrs. homeowner that this is OK and she shouldn't be concerned about that tripping circuit breaker.

But that inspectors foresight means very little. If his inspection standard is NEC, he is supposed to enforce to that standard, even if he has his own personal preference he can not reject something that otherwise meets the code.

 

[mhanson]

I enjoyed reading all of your comments

All the points made are completely valid, everyone approaches a job from a slightly different perspective,
This is what keeps our job so interesting.

 

[zappy]

What if its a existing 15amp GFCI circuit in the bathroom

What if its a existing 15amp GFCI circuit in the bathroom

You then add a recp. for a 150W. towel warmer and tap off the 15amp GFCI circuit. Is that legal?

 

[jumper]

You then add a recp. for a 150W. towel warmer and tap off the 15amp GFCI circuit. Is that legal?

While code now requires a dedicated 20 amp circuit, if you have a 15 amp existing circuit-yes, you can another receptacle in the bath for a towel warmer.