breaker position having rejection tab

Status
Not open for further replies.
H

hardworker

Senior Member
I am working on a Cutler-Hammer panel that accepts CHT breakers. It says to use CHT in a breaker position having a rejection tab.

I need clarification about identifying the rejection tab.
 
jumper

jumper

Senior Member
Location
3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
I cannot say where the positions are for your panel, but the positions are usually listed on the panel sticker and are frequently located near the bottom. The buss stabs will be different from the regular stabs and they will accept tandems, where as the regular stabs will not.

In this picture the stabs that can accept tandems are shown with the yellow squares.

Bus-Stabs-440x330.jpg
 
H

hardworker

Senior Member
The stabs in my panel don't look like the ones in your photo. They are more rounded projectures. The cht breaker does get accepted, when I insert it into my panel. If it takes it, can I assume all is fine?
 
jumper

jumper

Senior Member
Location
3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
hardworker said:
T The cht breaker does get accepted, when I insert it into my panel. If it takes it, can I assume all is fine?
Click to expand...

I do not believe so, but maybe. Some panels could be like a 20/40 and accept 20 tandems for 40 circuits.

Is this an older panel? No label? The CHT fits all stabs?

408.54 Maximum Number of Overcurrent Devices. A panelboard
shall be provided with physical means to prevent the
installation of more overcurrent devices than that number for
which the panelboard was designed, rated, and listed.
 
Smart $

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
hardworker said:
The stabs in my panel don't look like the ones in your photo. They are more rounded projectures. The cht breaker does get accepted, when I insert it into my panel. If it takes it, can I assume all is fine?
Click to expand...
Yes. Catalog says "All [CTL Plug-on CHT] breakers have rejection feature. Use only with loadcenters marked for use with CHT breakers."
 
Last edited:
H

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
jumper said:
Please explain, I thought the older panels did not have rejection features and more breakers than the panel was rated for could be installed.:?

You edited while I posted.
Click to expand...

ActionDave said:
As far as I know, the only panels where that is an issue is SqD.
Click to expand...

The rejection feature is part of the breaker, the panel must have the matching configuration in order to accept the tandem breaker. There are two types of tandem breakers, CTL and non CTL, one only works in panels designed for rejection breakers, while the other will fit either type panel, but are not supposed to be used if the panel is not listed for them. (Older panels) The rejection features came about to prevent installing more breakers than the panels were listed for. Same with most manufactures, not just Square D.
 
J

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
hillbilly1 said:
The rejection feature is part of the breaker, the panel must have the matching configuration in order to accept the tandem breaker. There are two types of tandem breakers, CTL and non CTL, one only works in panels designed for rejection breakers, while the other will fit either type panel, but are not supposed to be used if the panel is not listed for them. (Older panels) The rejection features came about to prevent installing more breakers than the panels were listed for. Same with most manufactures, not just Square D.
Click to expand...

The CTL rejection feature become a requirement way back in the mid 60's. For 50 years, electricians have frequently been ignoring the limit on the number of circuits in a panel, by the use the non-CTL "cheater" breakers.

I wonder about the ratio of non-CTL breakers and CTL breakers sold by manufacturers vs the number of older (i.e. >50yrs) and newer panels.:?
 
PetrosA

PetrosA

Senior Member
Location
Lancaster, Pennsylvania
The rejection tabs for CH breakers are on the non energized sides (plastic or metal rails) instead of on the bus itself like in the photos posted. IIRC, CH panels are either rated for all twin use or no twin use, so if it fits, it would fit anywhere.
 
H

hardworker

Senior Member
This Cutler-Hammer panel is probably 20 years old. It is a 200amp panel. It says you can use CHT breakers, but to use them in a breaker position having a rejection tab. I have a CHT breaker class CTL and it fits.
 
Smart $

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
hardworker said:
This Cutler-Hammer panel is probably 20 years old. It is a 200amp panel. It says you can use CHT breakers, but to use them in a breaker position having a rejection tab. I have a CHT breaker class CTL and it fits.
Click to expand...
Seems illogical to me. If CHT breakers can be installed in a position which doesn't have a rejection tab leads me to believe the rejection-tab feature is an ineffective physical implementation.
 
H

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
PetrosA said:
The rejection tabs for CH breakers are on the non energized sides (plastic or metal rails) instead of on the bus itself like in the photos posted. IIRC, CH panels are either rated for all twin use or no twin use, so if it fits, it would fit anywhere.
Click to expand...

I was trying to remember what the CH style tandems looked like, and now that you mentioned it, I do remember the rejection tab is on the rail, looks like a big thick hook molded onto the breaker that has to mate with the rail tab.
 
H

hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
hillbilly1 said:
Looked at the orange box yesterday at some, surprise surprise, they only sell non ctl!:roll::lol:
Click to expand...

Yea I missed the part where you said "big thick hook molded onto the breaker" the Square D QOT-CTL type are a metal hook, and the CHT are like you said a big boss like hook molded into the back of the breaker housing.

Unlike stab-in's its hard to defeat this feature on these breakers (QOT/CHT), stab ins I find installers just using a dremel or roto zip to cut the notch in the breaker to fit, although I have found a few QOT's with the hook cut off but doing this it leaves no mounting for the back of the breaker:blink:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top