Regarding article 682

[Aleman]

I have a pond with 3 pumps that feed 2 waterfalls and and stream. The wiring is a mess but that's a different story. I am looking over article 682 regarding bodies of water.

1st thing is the pumps are on SOW cords. The plugs were cut off and they are wired into a water tight box that is crammed in to some rocks that surround the pond. From there the installer ran SOW cord underground to another in ground water tight box and then PVC to the panel. That's another story also, I know it needs to be redone correctly with PVC or UF. In 682.14 it specifies that submersed equipment should be cord and plug connected. So, is this ok that the plugs were cut off and wired into the box?

These pumps are not on a GFI. 682.15 says that 15 and 20amp receptacles should be GFI protected. But the way these were installed, there are no receptacles. My opinion is that these need to be on GFI's.

Any opinions or suggestions welcomed.

 

[Smart $]

... So, is this ok that the plugs were cut off and wired into the box?

... My opinion is that these need to be on GFI's.

...

No...

...I agree.

Don't forget you also have to include a local disconnect for the receptacles... and coordination marking as appropriate. The disconnect has to be within 30" of the receptacle, not less than 12" above electrical datum plane, and not less than 5' from shoreline.

 

[renosteinke]

I have no problem with cutting the cords off and making connections in a box.

I have an issue with an 'in ground water tight box.' In my experience, that's just not workable. Far better is an open-bottomed 'handhole,' with the connections themselves sealed. While there are special wire nuts, I do not use them.

Instead, if the connections are 'light duty,' I just dip ordinary wire nuts in Scotch-kote, and position the nuts to drain. If I desire better sealing, Scotch has some small epoxy-packs that will encapsulate your wire nuts. Leave plenty of wire, enough that you can work on the connections above grade; working while laying on the ground and reaching blindly into the hole is no fun.

SOW survives immersion rather well, but soil contact quickly degrades both the outer jacket and the wire insulation. I'm sure that some soils are worse than others. UF might work, or you may have to find a better cable later.

 

[petersonra]

I have a pond with 3 pumps that feed 2 waterfalls and and stream. The wiring is a mess but that's a different story. I am looking over article 682 regarding bodies of water.

1st thing is the pumps are on SOW cords. The plugs were cut off and they are wired into a water tight box that is crammed in to some rocks that surround the pond. From there the installer ran SOW cord underground to another in ground water tight box and then PVC to the panel. That's another story also, I know it needs to be redone correctly with PVC or UF. In 682.14 it specifies that submersed equipment should be cord and plug connected. So, is this ok that the plugs were cut off and wired into the box?

These pumps are not on a GFI. 682.15 says that 15 and 20amp receptacles should be GFI protected. But the way these were installed, there are no receptacles. My opinion is that these need to be on GFI's.

Any opinions or suggestions welcomed.

I think you should read 682.15 more carefully.

 

[Smart $]

I think you should read 682.15 more carefully.

Care to elaborate why?

682.15 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter (GFCI) Protection.
Fifteen- and 20-ampere single-phase, 125-volt
through 250-volt receptacles installed outdoors and in or on
floating buildings or structures within the electrical datum
plane area that are used for storage, maintenance, or repair
where portable electric hand tools, electrical diagnostic
equipment, or portable lighting equipment are to be used
shall be provided with GFCI protection. The GFCI protection
device shall be located not less than 300 mm (12 in.)
above the established electrical datum plane.

 

[Smart $]

I have no problem with cutting the cords off and making connections in a box.

...

Really???

682.14 Submersible or Floating Equipment Power Connection(s).
Submersible or floating equipment shall be cord- and plug-connected...

 

[petersonra]

Care to elaborate why?

Fifteen- and 20-ampere single-phase, 125-volt
through 250-volt receptacles installed outdoors and in or on
floating buildings or structures within the electrical datum
plane area that are used for storage, maintenance, or repair
where portable electric hand tools, electrical diagnostic
equipment, or portable lighting equipment are to be used
shall be provided with GFCI protection.

 

[Smart $]

Fifteen- and 20-ampere single-phase, 125-volt
through 250-volt receptacles installed outdoors and in or on
floating buildings or structures within the electrical datum
plane area that are used for storage, maintenance, or repair
where portable electric hand tools, electrical diagnostic
equipment, or portable lighting equipment are to be used
shall be provided with GFCI protection.

Seems to lack clarity IMO.

However, we have 210.8(B)(4) requiring non-dwelling outdoor receptacles to be gfci'd with no exception for Article 682 receptacles... and 682.14 does require the use of receptacles.

 

[petersonra]

Seems to lack clarity IMO.

However, we have 210.8(B)(4) requiring non-dwelling outdoor receptacles to be gfci'd with no exception for Article 682 receptacles... and 682.14 does require the use of receptacles.

It seems odd that if the receptacles were already required to be GFCI that they would have gone to the trouble to say that only some of the receptacles have to be GFCI.

 

[Smart $]

It seems odd that if the receptacles were already required to be GFCI that they would have gone to the trouble to say that only some of the receptacles have to be GFCI.

Seems to me 682.15 only covers receptacles in and on floating buildings and structures. Perhaps to emphasize the need. However, the receptacles for 682.14 are required to be on shore... so I say 210.8 applies, regardless.

 

[petersonra]

Seems to me 682.15 only covers receptacles in and on floating buildings and structures. Perhaps to emphasize the need. However, the receptacles for 682.14 are required to be on shore... so I say 210.8 applies, regardless.

Perhaps because if it was In the floating building it would not be outside and thus not subject to the general requirement to install GFCIs on outdoor receptacles.

 

[Smart $]

Perhaps because if it was In the floating building it would not be outside and thus not subject to the general requirement to install GFCIs on outdoor receptacles.

I thought of that, but it still has to be an outdoors receptacle. Being "in" a building or structure doesn't necessarily mean it is inside (i.e. not exposed to weather).

 

[Aleman]

Thanks for all the comments. I see the NEC is subject to interpretation in a big way. But I would say the electrical work for the pond pumps is half assed no matter how it's interpreted. Big job to fix it.

For the GFI's, it looks like it could be interpreted either way. I side with GFI's required on the pumps. As far as cutting off the plugs and running into the box with water tight connectors, it is clearly not to code. I personally think cutting the plugs would be an ok way to wire the pumps, but the NEC says otherwise.

Regarding the in ground water tight box, I saw the suggestion to use an open bottom box. I guess then it could drain ok. This thing was worse. The original box was level with the ground then they added fill to the entire area so the lid of the box was below the surface. No screws in the lid, box full of dirt. I stacked another box on top of it so now it is a water tight deep box. But since it's deep and the wires are short, it's still no good. If my boss puts me on this one I will consider the open bottom box. Is that the reason to use open bottom..drainage?

Now, since the code says receptacles and the disconnect close by, what is the most elegant way to approach that? Does anyone make a small panel that will take water tight in use receptacles and circuit breakers? Seems kinda dumb to have receptacles sticking up out of the dirt and then a small panel right next to it also sticking up out of the dirt.

 

[Smart $]

...

Regarding the in ground water tight box, I saw the suggestion to use an open bottom box. I guess then it could drain ok. This thing was worse. The original box was level with the ground then they added fill to the entire area so the lid of the box was below the surface. No screws in the lid, box full of dirt. I stacked another box on top of it so now it is a water tight deep box. But since it's deep and the wires are short, it's still no good. If my boss puts me on this one I will consider the open bottom box. Is that the reason to use open bottom..drainage?

TTBOMK, yes. And they are typically called a handhole enclosure or box. Also...

314.29 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, and Handhole Enclosures
to Be Accessible. Boxes, conduit bodies, and handhole
enclosures shall be installed so that the wiring contained
in them can be rendered accessible without removing
any part of the building or, in underground circuits, without
excavating sidewalks, paving, earth, or other substance that
is to be used to establish the finished grade.

Exception: Listed boxes and handhole enclosures shall be
permitted where covered by gravel, light aggregate, or noncohesive
granulated soil if their location is effectively identified
and accessible for excavation.

Now, since the code says receptacles and the disconnect close by, what is the most elegant way to approach that? Does anyone make a small panel that will take water tight in use receptacles and circuit breakers? Seems kinda dumb to have receptacles sticking up out of the dirt and then a small panel right next to it also sticking up out of the dirt.

First up for discussion is the elevation of the electrical datum plane with respect to the water level and shoreline slope. See 682.2 for the definition of electrical datum plane. Your disconnects have to be not less than 12" above the datum plane.

If you have a steep shoreline slope, it is possible for each disconnect to be at or below grade. If not, they will obviously have to be above grade.

Also note that each disconnect can be a switch. A general purpose snap switch is likely what I would use in say a bell box with weatherproof cover.

Note it is not specifically required that each receptacle be at any elevation relative to the datum plane, but if you use GFCI receptacles or remote-device GFCI, it is required the GFCI device be not less than 12" above the datum plane.

 

[GoldDigger]

As far as cutting off the plugs and running into the box with water tight connectors, it is clearly not to code. I personally think cutting the plugs would be an ok way to wire the pumps, but the NEC says otherwise.

FWIW, I have seen some submersible sump pumps whose cord included a small vent tube to allow air pressure equalization of the sealed motor compartment. If you cut that plug off, you would have to maintain the integrity of the vent system as part of the process.

 

[Aleman]

TTBOMK, yes. And they are typically called a handhole enclosure or box. Also...

First up for discussion is the elevation of the electrical datum plane with respect to the water level and shoreline slope. See 682.2 for the definition of electrical datum plane. Your disconnects have to be not less than 12" above the datum plane.

If you have a steep shoreline slope, it is possible for each disconnect to be at or below grade. If not, they will obviously have to be above grade.

Also note that each disconnect can be a switch. A general purpose snap switch is likely what I would use in say a bell box with weatherproof cover.

Note it is not specifically required that each receptacle be at any elevation relative to the datum plane, but if you use GFCI receptacles or remote-device GFCI, it is required the GFCI device be not less than 12" above the datum plane.

The location of the current pump JB is above the datum plane as defined in 682.2. So the box is ok height wise, but it's not anchored in any way. That plus the incoming circuits are buried SOW cable. The breakers for the pumps are about 30' away. Truthfully, the best way to fix this would be to rip everything out and start over. Thanks for pointing out that a snap switch can be used. If I do this job that is what I will do. Make some sort of mounting post out of pressure treated and hang 3 boxes with receptacles and switches in line, PVC conduit etc.

 

[Aleman]

FWIW, I have seen some submersible sump pumps whose cord included a small vent tube to allow air pressure equalization of the sealed motor compartment. If you cut that plug off, you would have to maintain the integrity of the vent system as part of the process.

That's a new one on me but then again I have done very little outdoor work of this nature. I guess as long as the box could breath then the vent could still work.