what has to be listed

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Ponchik

Ponchik

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Location
CA
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Electronologist
as I am going the NEC and by reading posts and talking to inspectors and other contractors a comment that comes up alot is "it has to listed product". Now my question are:

Out all of the items, equipment, hardware that we install which has to be listed?

for example the EMT strap that just came up in previous forum. the 1 hole straps do not have to be listed. Then again the AHJ says you have to use a listed product to support the EMT

2nd example: when using grounding screw to bond the metal box. The grounding screw does not have to be listed just for grounding, yet some AHJ think the green screws have been listed & designed just for that purpose.

3rd example/question: Supporting NM cable. I can install 1 hole strap and use zip ties to strap the NM cable to the 1 hole strap. Yet some AHJ will fail the inspection.

4th example: Sheetrock screw, we all use them for other tasks other than sheetrock. Now, is that listed as a fastener or it is listed strictly for sheetrock?

What items/equipment have to be listed? when does an item has to be listed? who determines that a product has to be listed?
 
Ponchik

Ponchik

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Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
No takers on this??

No takers on this??

bumped it to see if i can get any replies.

Thanks.
 
roger

roger

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Fl
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Retired Electrician
As far as the NEC is concerned, it tells you what it requires to be listed, see 358.6 for example. With that being said, individual AHJ requirements would be a local issue and unfortunately it becomes a crutch.

Here is NC stance.

? 66‑25. Acceptable listings as to safety of goods.
All electrical materials, devices, appliances, and equipment shall be evaluated for safety and suitability for intended use. This evaluation shall be conducted in accordance with nationally recognized standards and shall be conducted by a qualified testing laboratory. The Commissioner of Insurance, through the Engineering Division of the Department of Insurance, shall implement the procedures necessary to approve suitable national standards and to approve suitable qualified testing laboratories. The Commissioner may assign his authority to implement the procedures for specific materials, devices, appliances, or equipment to other agencies or bodies when they would be uniquely qualified to implement those procedures.
In the event that the Commissioner determines that electrical materials, devices, appliances, or equipment in question cannot be adequately evaluated through the use of approved national standards or by approved qualified testing laboratories, the Engineering Division of the Department of Insurance shall specify any alternative evaluations which safety requires.
The Engineering Division of the Department of Insurance shall keep in file, where practical, copies of all approved national standards and resumes of approved qualified testing laboratories. (1933, c. 555, s. 3; 1989, c. 681, s. 1.)
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Roger
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
edward said:
as I am going the NEC and by reading posts and talking to inspectors and other contractors a comment that comes up alot is "it has to listed product". Now my question are:

Out all of the items, equipment, hardware that we install which has to be listed?

for example the EMT strap that just came up in previous forum. the 1 hole straps do not have to be listed. Then again the AHJ says you have to use a listed product to support the EMT

2nd example: when using grounding screw to bond the metal box. The grounding screw does not have to be listed just for grounding, yet some AHJ think the green screws have been listed & designed just for that purpose.

3rd example/question: Supporting NM cable. I can install 1 hole strap and use zip ties to strap the NM cable to the 1 hole strap. Yet some AHJ will fail the inspection.

4th example: Sheetrock screw, we all use them for other tasks other than sheetrock. Now, is that listed as a fastener or it is listed strictly for sheetrock?

What items/equipment have to be listed? when does an item has to be listed? who determines that a product has to be listed?
Click to expand...

Going strictly on NEC and not on any local amendments - the NEC tells you what must be listed.

Your first example, ask your AHJ where it is written that EMT support methods must be listed, they are not there that I am aware of.

Your second example, again ask where it is written. Grounding screws do not have to be listed, and in fact do not even have to be green. The only screw required to be green is the bonding screw for panelboards, I would need to check which section requires it but I am pretty certain it is in there. No such language anywhere I am aware of regarding general purpose equipment grounding though.

Your third example, again ask where it is written. There are staples made that are listed, there is no language in NEC requiring support method for NM cable to be listed though.

Your fourth example, I have to ask if there is any general listing requirements for fasteners? Sure there may be some fasteners that are listed for a specific application, but I still think it is more important that the application call for listed fastener than for the fastener to be listed at all.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
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Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
While there are specific sections that require the use of listed products (often in the xxx.6 section of the Chapter 3 and 4 articles, as well as other places in the code). In addition 110.2 requires that all electrical equipment be approved.
v\110.2 Approval. The conductors and equipment required or permitted by this Code shall be acceptable only if approved.
Informational Note: See 90.7, Examination of Equipment for Safety, and 110.3, Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment. See definitions of Approved,
Identified, Labeled, and Listed.
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Approved. Acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction.
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Identified (as applied to equipment). Recognizable as suitable for the specific purpose, function, use, environment, application, and so forth, where described in a particular
Code requirement.
Informational Note: Some examples of ways to determine suitability of equipment for a specific purpose, environment, or application include investigations by a qualified testing
laboratory (listing and labeling), an inspection agency, or other organizations concerned with product evaluation.
Click to expand...
The AHJ is well within its authority to require the use of listed products, where such products exist, based on 110.2.
 
Ponchik

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
don_resqcapt19 said:
While there are specific sections that require the use of listed products (often in the xxx.6 section of the Chapter 3 and 4 articles, as well as other places in the code). In addition 110.2 requires that all electrical equipment be approved.



The AHJ is well within its authority to require the use of listed products, where such products exist, based on 110.2.
Click to expand...

So according to what you are saying, AHJ may reject zip tie as method to secure conduit or NM cable whether it is listed or not. it is subject to their approval.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

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Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
edward said:
So according to what you are saying, AHJ may reject zip tie as method to secure conduit or NM cable whether it is listed or not. it is subject to their approval.
Click to expand...
Yes they can, they can even reject a listed product if they do not want to approve it.
 
Ponchik

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
don_resqcapt19 said:
Yes they can, they can even reject a listed product if they do not want to approve it.
Click to expand...

Is that the responsibility of the individual inspector to approve or reject on case by case bases or it has to be done as a department?
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
If the best code violation an inspector can come up with is 110.2, he had better have very good reasoning for his decision. "Because I said so" is making your own code IMO. I have come to expect somewhat uniform enforcement from a particular AHJ and it should not matter which individual inspector comes to a job they should all inspect to similar standards. I do realize they are individuals and there will be some individual differences. I also expect to be able to talk to them about any disagreements in what is allowed or not allowed.

I have learned from inspectors in the past, and some inspectors have learned from me in the past. Respect for each other is important. I have a big problem from the start with those that come with the attitude that they are never wrong, and that alone is motivation to try to prove them wrong with something.
 
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