service rated transfer switch

[boltneck]

older house with 3 wire se cable feeds for the range and dryer

installing service rated transfer switch, main panel will now be fed with ser and separate the neutrals and grounds


do you guys that do alot of generator installs leave the existings branch ckt feeds? tape the bare conductor white and land it with the neutrals? re-feed with 4 wire?

 

[John120/240]

In the recent past this topic was brought up. It was the general feeling that the correct thing to do was to repull the range and

dryer circuits in 4 wire. You need to be on your toes in these situations and include this in your bid.

 

[boltneck]

i have in the past, when doing a service upgrade, and the original 100 amp main panel became a sub panel, been told by the inspector to tape the bare neutral of an existing range ckt in se cable and put it with the other neutrals.


It would be my guess that is what happens most of the time on generator installs

 

[jumper]

i have in the past, when doing a service upgrade, and the original 100 amp main panel became a sub panel, been told by the inspector to tape the bare neutral of an existing range ckt in se cable and put it with the other neutrals.


It would be my guess that is what happens most of the time on generator installs

While that might be done and accepted by certain inspectors, I believe that would be a violation. That method does not meet the all the rules for existing circuits.

250.140 Frames of Ranges and Clothes Dryers. Frames
of electric ranges, wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted
cooking units, clothes dryers, and outlet or junction boxes
that are part of the circuit for these appliances shall be
connected to the equipment grounding conductor in the
manner specified by 250.134 or 250.138.


Exception: For existing branch-circuit installations only
where an equipment grounding conductor is not present in
the outlet or junction box, the frames of electric ranges,
wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted cooking units,
clothes dryers, and outlet or junction boxes that are part of
the circuit for these appliances shall be permitted to be
connected to the grounded circuit conductor if all the following
conditions are met.

(1) The supply circuit is 120/240-volt, single-phase, 3-wire;
or 208Y/120-volt derived from a 3-phase, 4-wire, wyeconnected
system.
(2) The grounded conductor is not smaller than 10 AWG
copper or 8 AWG aluminum.
(3) The grounded conductor is insulated, or the grounded
conductor is uninsulated and part of a Type SE serviceentrance
cable and the branch circuit originates at the
service equipment.
(4) Grounding contacts of receptacles furnished as part of
the equipment are bonded to the equipment.

 

[ceb58]

While that might be done and accepted by certain inspectors, I believe that would be a violation. That method does not meet the all the rules for existing circuits.

250.140 Frames of Ranges and Clothes Dryers. Frames
of electric ranges, wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted
cooking units, clothes dryers, and outlet or junction boxes
that are part of the circuit for these appliances shall be
connected to the equipment grounding conductor in the
manner specified by 250.134 or 250.138.


Exception: For existing branch-circuit installations only
where an equipment grounding conductor is not present in
the outlet or junction box, the frames of electric ranges,
wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted cooking units,
clothes dryers, and outlet or junction boxes that are part of
the circuit for these appliances shall be permitted to be
connected to the grounded circuit conductor if all the following
conditions are met.

(1) The supply circuit is 120/240-volt, single-phase, 3-wire;
or 208Y/120-volt derived from a 3-phase, 4-wire, wyeconnected
system.
(2) The grounded conductor is not smaller than 10 AWG
copper or 8 AWG aluminum.
(3) The grounded conductor is insulated, or the grounded
conductor is uninsulated and part of a Type SE serviceentrance
cable and the branch circuit originates at the
service equipment.
(4) Grounding contacts of receptacles furnished as part of
the equipment are bonded to the equipment.

Why not? The OP states SE cable look at #3 you high lighted. I have been in the same situation and told the same thing by more than one inspector. Tape the bare white and move it to the neutral bar. The only thing is the wording of the last part of #3 "branch circuit originates at the service equipment". The panel is now a sub due to the install of ether a SE rated ATS or SE rated disconnect before the ATS. Even though the panel, formally known as the main panel, is now a sub panel it still contains all of the branch circuits.

 

[shepelec]

In reading posts on this forum, I have always found it funny that when an inspector allows you to violate the Code it's acceptable,
but when they ask for more than the Code there is outrage.

Why would be be acceptable to take a compliant install and make it non-compliant? You created the violation. JMHO

 

[John120/240]

delete

 

[John120/240]

In reading posts on this forum, I have always found it funny that when an inspector allows you to violate the Code it's acceptable,
but when they ask for more than the Code there is outrage.

In the first situation it is to the electricians benefit requiring no further work. The second situation is likely to cost money and headaches

that the electrician did not anticipate