For the hundreth time...

[egurdian3]

Guys, put me out of my missery: a) Is a dental office (with the dental chair and drill) a patient care area with emergency power requirements?
b)What if the building has multiple dental tenants and no back-up power?

 

[kwired]

Guys, put me out of my missery: a) Is a dental office (with the dental chair and drill) a patient care area with emergency power requirements?
b)What if the building has multiple dental tenants and no back-up power?

I don't think this is something determined by NEC. It is going to be in some hospital and other medical facilities codes. I would guess the procedures performed will be determining factors. Most general dental practices I doubt would require emergency power requirements other than maybe some lighting requirements. More complex procedures as done by an "oral surgeon" or other specialty doctors are more likely to require different emergency power requirements, especially if the patient is under more than just local anesthesia for the procedure.

 

[ASG]

I would say it is a patient care area (needs to meet the requirements of 517.13) but exception no. 2 of 517.18(A) keeps it from requiring emergency power.

 

[kwired]

I would say it is a patient care area (needs to meet the requirements of 517.13) but exception no. 2 of 517.18(A) keeps it from requiring emergency power.

517.18(A) does not require an emergency system it requires receptacles at bed locations to be supplied from emergency system. So the most you can get from this section is that patient bed locations do not require a receptacle that is supplied from the emergency system, but not whether or not an emergency system is required.

 

[ASG]

517.18(A) does not require an emergency system it requires receptacles at bed locations to be supplied from emergency system. So the most you can get from this section is that patient bed locations do not require a receptacle that is supplied from the emergency system, but not whether or not an emergency system is required.

That's what I meant. If the exception wasn't there, it would require emergency receptacles and therefore require an emergency system. Since the exception is there, I see no other place in the NEC that requires emergency power so he appears to be in the clear in terms of NEC.

 

[charlie b]

What about 517.10(B)(1)? It says that the entirety of Part II (including the subsections mentioned earlier in this thread) does not apply to dental offices. But even without that, 517.18 would not be a player, because a dental chair is not a bed.

 

[ASG]

What about 517.10(B)(1)? It says that the entirety of Part II (including the subsections mentioned earlier in this thread) does not apply to dental offices.

It says it does not apply to business offices, corridors, waiting rooms and the like in dental offices, not the entire dental office. That is why 517.13 still applies.

But even without that, 517.18 would not be a player, because a dental chair is not a bed.

You are correct here. I missed that a procedure table (which a dental chair can be) only counts as a bed if it is in a critical care area.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I agree that it's a patient care area, but I also think that you do need emergency power if you put someone out to do oral surgery.

 

[david]

517.25 Essential Electrical system is required. And to what extent emergency power and emergency lighting is required and what area?s it is needed in, is up to the health care facility. If the health care facility feels the need for emergency lighting around medical cabinet, or an area where medical personal are working with needles, for what ever other reason they feel its needed then its required.
517.45 the essential electrical system shall be a battery or generator system
So yes an emergency system is required in a dentist office. It's up to the medical personal if emergency power for receptacles would be required for the procedure area.
Its also up to the medical personal where emergency lighting is required. Except if emergency lighting is required for life safety reasons.
Look to NFPA 99 for some guidance. Also note: the NFPA 99 commentary indicates that patient bed locations extend to other procedure area weather it?s a bed or a chair or even a free standing ex-ray equipment.

 

[kwired]

I agree that it's a patient care area, but I also think that you do need emergency power if you put someone out to do oral surgery.

Level of care provided was what I was trying to get at in my first reply in this thread. Most typical dental care areas probably would not need any emergency power other than maybe egress lighting just like any other public access building, if the patient is unconscious during the procedure that is likely to change, but those types of procedures are usually done in specialty clinics and not your typical general dental care clinics.

517.25 Essential Electrical system is required. And to what extent emergency power and emergency lighting is required and what area?s it is needed in, is up to the health care facility. If the health care facility feels the need for emergency lighting around medical cabinet, or an area where medical personal are working with needles, for what ever other reason they feel its needed then its required.
517.45 the essential electrical system shall be a battery or generator system
So yes an emergency system is required in a dentist office. It's up to the medical personal if emergency power for receptacles would be required for the procedure area.
Its also up to the medical personal where emergency lighting is required. Except if emergency lighting is required for life safety reasons.
Look to NFPA 99 for some guidance. Also note: the NFPA 99 commentary indicates that patient bed locations extend to other procedure area weather it?s a bed or a chair or even a free standing ex-ray equipment.

The first paragraph is not real clear, the facility management can desire to have standby power for particular areas, and I guess they can become part of the essential system, but they are not legally required outlets of the essential system as determined by other codes or AHJ's.

I agree with the rest mentioned here.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Level of care provided was what I was trying to get at in my first reply in this thread. Most typical dental care areas probably would not need any emergency power other than maybe egress lighting just like any other public access building, if the patient is unconscious during the procedure that is likely to change, but those types of procedures are usually done in specialty clinics and not your typical general dental care clinics.



The first paragraph is not real clear, the facility management can desire to have standby power for particular areas, and I guess they can become part of the essential system, but they are not legally required outlets of the essential system as determined by other codes or AHJ's.

I agree with the rest mentioned here.

I would agree with that 100%. Used to be different, but you are seeing this much more.

You just have to ask the right questions and actually those questions should be asked by the plan checkers. That is why I have such an issue with guys biding jobs off of the original plans and not the approved plans. A back up power supply could be a pretty big extra.