Tough call

[Buck Parrish]

It's been my expierience that the situation would have only got worst. It's all about respect. I want my customers to know my help are full time electricians. Not part time painters, too.
Next thing you know he would be putting pictures of your work on his website. Easy call IMO you done the right thing.
I tell my guys to not talk to the customers about ANY thing but the work you are there to perform.

 

[renosteinke]

OK, let's put a slightly different spin on things ....

You're hired by a GC to wire the addition to a house. The customer likes you, and wants to talk to you about other jobs - whether it be the hot tub he's planning for next summer, or new lights for the warehouse he manages.

The GC objects, say's you're doing wrong. GC asserts that any work, done anywhere, for this customer is HIS work, and the customer needs to go through him ... even if it's an 'electric only' job, completely unconnected to this project. Indeed, the GC even objects to your having your name & number on your truck as you work on HIS site; says tha't soliciting his customers.

Do you agree?

 

[iwire]

I don't see much of a problem with him doing other types of work for the same customers, soliciting them on company time can cause problems, I'm imagining a guy getting out of company truck, maybe wearing company uniform, even if he clocks out his time and explains that his business is totally separate customer may mentally associate the 2?

Again ....... I said fire him for doing his stuff on your time, that is not what he is paid for.

But no one owns a customer, there are a million people after customers, it is an open field. Once you start thinking your customers are 'yours' customer service falls off and others will step in.

 

[kwired]

Again ....... I said fire him for doing his stuff on your time, that is not what he is paid for.

But no one owns a customer, there are a million people after customers, it is an open field. Once you start thinking your customers are 'yours' customer service falls off and others will step in.

Very true.

Suppose you had a valued electrician working for you, a man who was a drummer in a band. Electrician by day, musician by night.

Your customer mentions in passing that their daughter is getting married. Would you mind if the guy became the 'wedding singer?' Would you mind if he told folks about his 'other' gig?

His other gig is not in competition with my gig. I would still expect him to make his arrangements on his own time and not my time though. He can mention to the customer he provides this service and give them contact information, but that is about the extent of what should be done on my time - or any other employers time as far as I am concerned - that is just being fair to all.

At the other extreme .... I've personally witnessed firms that had part-time help, paid minimum wage, and would immediately fire anyone at the first hint that they had a second job. They had a 'policy' of not tolerating other employment. Other places, less honest, would accomplish much the same by juggling the work schedule at unpredictable intervals. A major retailer insists they have nothing against certain religions - it's just, by golly, pure happenstance that they occasionally require their warehouse folks to come in on Saturday. (Doubters can look up K-Mart and their litigation on this issue).

I can understand religious rights and other things like that, but IMO if you told them up front the job position expected them to work on Saturdays and they claimed their religiuos practices don't allow for that, I don't see that you are obligated to make arrangements for them. That is the position that is open. If they don't want to work Saturday then they need to apply for a position that doesn't have working hours on Saturday, and if there is not such a position then they need to seek employment elsewhere.

OK, let's put a slightly different spin on things ....

You're hired by a GC to wire the addition to a house. The customer likes you, and wants to talk to you about other jobs - whether it be the hot tub he's planning for next summer, or new lights for the warehouse he manages.

The GC objects, say's you're doing wrong. GC asserts that any work, done anywhere, for this customer is HIS work, and the customer needs to go through him ... even if it's an 'electric only' job, completely unconnected to this project. Indeed, the GC even objects to your having your name & number on your truck as you work on HIS site; says tha't soliciting his customers.

Do you agree?

This one can be complicated but chances are you are under contract and not an employee with the GC. So all you are obligated to is the contract. You certainly can make other phone calls and conduct other business with the client as well as other clients while you are on this particular job. If you don't meet contract deadlines for any reason, that is a separate issue from whether or not you were conducting any other business while physically at the location.

 

[growler]

OK, let's put a slightly different spin on things ....

You're hired by a GC to wire the addition to a house. The customer likes you, and wants to talk to you about other jobs - whether it be the hot tub he's planning for next summer, or new lights for the warehouse he manages.

The GC objects, say's you're doing wrong. GC asserts that any work, done anywhere, for this customer is HIS work, and the customer needs to go through him ... even if it's an 'electric only' job, completely unconnected to this project. Indeed, the GC even objects to your having your name & number on your truck as you work on HIS site; says tha't soliciting his customers.

Do you agree?

I try to get things like this straightened out before starting a job. This should really be covered in the terms of the contract.

Normally any changes or addition to the project will go through the GC and anything outside the scope of his contract is up for grabs.

It would be hard for a GC to complain about company name and number on my vehicle (vehicles) because it is required by law as a sub-contractor. If the GC were to hire me as an employee ( haveing his own electrical license, it can happen ) then he would be right not to want a competing company on the job.

I sign a contract with a GC as a sub-contractor and if I worked for a GC these things would becovered under terms of employment.

 

[kwired]

It would be hard for a GC to complain about company name and number on my vehicle (vehicles) because it is required by law as a sub-contractor. If the GC were to hire me as an employee ( haveing his own electrical license, it can happen ) then he would be right not to want a competing company on the job.

I was going to mention that before and forgot to. Many cases it is required to have company name on a commercial vehicle. Especially trucks over a certain gross weight.

 

[growler]

OK, let's put a slightly different spin on things ....

You're hired by a GC to wire the addition to a house. The customer likes you, and wants to talk to you about other jobs - whether it be the hot tub he's planning for next summer, or new lights for the warehouse he manages.

The GC objects, say's you're doing wrong. GC asserts that any work, done anywhere, for this customer is HIS work, and the customer needs to go through him ... even if it's an 'electric only' job, completely unconnected to this project. Indeed, the GC even objects to your having your name & number on your truck as you work on HIS site; says tha't soliciting his customers.

Do you agree?

Put a little more spin on this.

What if this GC was your main source of income. You have an exclusive contract with him to use only you as his electrical contractor. He provides your compay with a mimimum of 5 million in work each year and without him you are probably out of business and out looking for a job.

Would you be willing to put up with these terms in order to get his business?

Now if he only has one little addition for you each year you tell him to pound sand but if this is your bread and butter you have to think about it.

The same goes for an employee. If his side business is his main source of income then he won't care much if he is fired but if it's his job is the only thing keeping a roof over his head things are different.

If I were going to run a side business and solicit on company time I would be sure to clear it with the boss so as to keep my job. One day you may be in a position to tell the boss to take his job and shove it but until that day comes you are working for him.

 

[kwired]

Put a little more spin on this.

What if this GC was your main source of income. You have an exclusive contract with him to use only you as his electrical contractor. He provides your compay with a mimimum of 5 million in work each year and without him you are probably out of business and out looking for a job.

Would you be willing to put up with these terms in order to get his business?

Now if he only has one little addition for you each year you tell him to pound sand but if this is your bread and butter you have to think about it.

The same goes for an employee. If his side business is his main source of income then he won't care much if he is fired but if it's his job is the only thing keeping a roof over his head things are different.

If I were going to run a side business and solicit on company time I would be sure to clear it with the boss so as to keep my job. One day you may be in a position to tell the boss to take his job and shove it but until that day comes you are working for him.

If he gets me 5 million a year in work I likely am not going to look very hard for extra work, and will be turning down many if not all requests for other work from just about anybody. I might even hire someone else to do most of the "honey-do's" that I currently have little time to do but still find time to do anyway.

 

[GUNNING]

If he gets me 5 million in work a year I would have isolated that section of my business and put a key person on it and start up another.

I would quietly change the boiler plate when other requests were being made to isolate the other company and have the other work leads moved on to the office. Boiler plate would state other work contracted onsite needs office approval. Cuts the micro manager looking for immediate gratification out of the loop. Have the office sales staff renegotiate the new work at a more convenient time.

 

[cowboyjwc]

If a guy gave me $5M in work I would probably marry him. I'm just saying.:lol:

 

[GoldDigger]

If a guy gave me $5M in work I would probably marry him. I'm just saying.:lol:

Would it be legal in your state?

 

[cowboyjwc]

Would it be legal in your state?

:thumbsup:

 

[GUNNING]

Bridal registry and colors

Bridal registry and colors

If a guy gave me $5M in work I would probably marry him.

If you lived in a community property state sounds like the GC would give it a go knowing he would be getting a discount on the work and get half of the profits back when the divorce is final. Make sure you don't sign the prenuptial agreement.

What would your bridal colors be? Having been a contractor for a while, would you wear white?
Does Home Depot have a bridal registry?

 

[marti smith]

You guys are taking my place and are totally outta control!

 

[petersonra]

a lot of these kind of problems are the direct result of the employer not having a clear understanding with his/her employees as to just what is expected of them up front.

that is solely the fault of the employer.

If the employer has made it clear what is expected and an employee deliberately violates the expectations (especially repeatedly), there is little choice but for the employer to take some kind of disciplinary action.

Employers are often not clear about just what is really expected. The employer may believe they are clear, but what the employer believes and what the employee believes to be the case are often at odds, sometimes by a lot.

I have found that a lot of supervisors and managers are just plain afraid to supervise and manage. This leads to employees who get out of line, and it is really not the employee's fault. It is far easier to correct minor behavioral issues early on. Once someone gets into bad habits it is very hard to change them. It is like blaming a child for inappropriate behavior that results from parents that refuse to parent.

 

[cadpoint]

The thread is lost IMO. I've signed non-competive contracts, I've signed non-disclosure contracts, I've signed combination contracts. The man layed down his rules. I've been fired for less before, it wasn't from anything that was mentioned! The OP will have to go through a few to find someone else, we all can debate their next actions if they care to inform...

 

[fisherelectric]

The bottom line is I don't need an employee of mine soliciting an illegitimate business to my customers either on my time or off my time. When an employee tries to sell my customers day laborers as professional painters, carpenters, pressure washers, etc. with no insurance, no workers comp., no taxes withheld, then he is being a jackass. When he's working for me, he represents me. When he acts like a jackass, it's a reflection of my judgement having him work for me. He ignored our little sit-down talk, and solicited another contractor's client. End of story.
I felt bad at first, but now with a week of time gone by, I am convinced it was the right thing to do, even though I am way behind now and have ticked off customers. I've had to put my own tools back on for the first time in 6 years. But it's worth it. I've been through much worse. This is a guy I would let use a company vehicle to do side jobs on the weekends. I know people need extra money to get by. But when he threatens to screw up my relationship with contractors and clients that's just biting the hand that feeds you. Good riddance.

 

[GUNNING]

Good Ridence!

Good Ridence!

HERE! HERE!:thumbsup:

 

[Hv&Lv]

The bottom line is I don't need an employee of mine soliciting an illegitimate business to my customers either on my time or off my time. When an employee tries to sell my customers day laborers as professional painters, carpenters, pressure washers, etc. with no insurance, no workers comp., no taxes withheld, then he is being a jackass. When he's working for me, he represents me. When he acts like a jackass, it's a reflection of my judgement having him work for me. He ignored our little sit-down talk, and solicited another contractor's client. End of story.
I felt bad at first, but now with a week of time gone by, I am convinced it was the right thing to do, even though I am way behind now and have ticked off customers. I've had to put my own tools back on for the first time in 6 years. But it's worth it. I've been through much worse. This is a guy I would let use a company vehicle to do side jobs on the weekends. I know people need extra money to get by. But when he threatens to screw up my relationship with contractors and clients that's just biting the hand that feeds you. Good riddance.

You would think in today's economy a replacement is just around the corner. You may get lucky and find a better replacement and will consider yourself fortunate for firing him. Everyone is replaceable.
I would not dream of soliciting extra work at my job. I will not take a job just because the customers know I work for a POCO. I also will not recommend an electrician friend for a service call while I am at work, nor will I take the job myself when I have an instance that requires an electrician on a trouble call. I value the job I have too highly to risk it on secondary employment.
As an employee, I do not think the restrictions you demanded were too severe.

 

[Fulthrotl]

If a guy gave me $5M in work I would probably marry him.

If you lived in a community property state sounds like the GC would give it a go knowing he would be getting a discount on the work and get half of the profits back when the divorce is final. Make sure you don't sign the prenuptial agreement.

What would your bridal colors be? Having been a contractor for a while, would you wear white?
Does Home Depot have a bridal registry?

a contractor wearing white for purity?
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: