USB Receptacle

[kwired]

I agree, the USB outlet is not a receptacle and it is not a part of chapters 1 through 4. The actual wording is It wouldn't matter what else was on the same yoke unless it was another receptacle.

Roger

But isn't this a single receptacle and another "outlet" all in one device?

As far as NEC is concerned isn't this effectively no different than a circuit with a single receptacle and a lighting outlet connected to it?

The "USB outlet" is an outlet by art 100 definition, so does this make this yoke a multioutlet assembly? I think so. But not an art 100 defined multioutlet assembly, which better defines something like Plugmold.

Is a single yoke device a single outlet or can it be multiple outlets? The thing in this thread to me is clearly a single receptacle and another device of some sort.

 

[roger]

I don't really understand what the rest of your post was asking/saying but, I am in agreement with this part

The thing in this thread to me is clearly a single receptacle

and it is the reason the pictured device can not be connected to a 20 amp circuit.

Roger

 

[jap]

I would consider this a Single 15 Amp Receptacle that could not be installed on a dedicated 20 Amp Circuit unless it was in a 20 Amp Version.
The "Circuitry" to the USB Charging system is 120v but that is not another "Outlet".
The USB Ports are "Outlets" but not 120v Outlets.

Although you could, I dont see the likelyhood of having to run a dedictaed circuit to one of these very often anyway.

JAP>

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Okay while you are at it decide if this is compliant on a kitchen counter. I realize these question may be ridiculous as the amount of current used for the port is small however by code it would appear that this device cannot be used on the sabc.

 

[jap]

Why wouldnt this be compliant on a Kitchen Counter as long as it had GFI Protection ahead of it or an a sabc ?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Why wouldnt this be compliant on a Kitchen Counter as long as it had GFI Protection ahead of it or an a sabc ?

Because it is serving more than the kitchen receptacles. Obviously ridiculous because someone could easily plug there own usb in to the kit. circuit and it would be okay ---however the code states the sabc should have no other outlets... the USB IMO is another outlet but I would never turn it down.

 

[jap]

Oh,I see your point, Interesting thought,,,,,,

Although i would consider the wiring to the line side of the charging system on the SABC with no "Outlet" since it is hard wired to the line side of the charger,

The Low Voltage output to the USB Ports is what I would not consider part of the SABC but a Load that is being fed by it.

 

[ASG]

On my back order the description says:

IFMA Insider Web Offer Letter

 

[jap]

To your point I guess one could consider the wiring to the Line Side of the USB Charger as something on the Kitchen SABC that's not supposed to be on it.

Never really thought about it.

My original concern on these is how much load or heat these things produce (if any) since it would be energized 24/7.

I like the option of being able to unplug my USB Charging devices.

 

[infinity]

But isn't this a single receptacle and another "outlet" all in one device?

As far as NEC is concerned isn't this effectively no different than a circuit with a single receptacle and a lighting outlet connected to it?

Yes, by the definition of an outlet it's more than a just single 15 amp receptacle. That would also by definition make it not an individual branch circuit, if that's what the OP meant by a dedicated circuit.

 

[jap]

Yes, by the definition of an outlet it's more than a just single 15 amp receptacle. That would also by definition make it not an individual branch circuit, if that's what the OP meant by a dedicated circuit.

The OP was wondering if this device could be installed on a Dedictated 20 Amp Branch Circuit which would require the Receptacle to be 20 Amp Rated if the receptacle is in fact
considered to be counted as only 1 outlet on the strap.

If the USB Ports are considered outlets along with the 15a Receptacle then there is more than 1 outlet and this receptacle would be allowed on a Dedicated 20 Amp Circuit.

I myself do not feel the USB Ports should be counted as Outlets along with the 120v 15a receptacle and shouldnt be allowed if installed on a 20 Amp dedicated circuit

but I'm probably wrong.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't think there is a right and wrong to this just an eye opener as to how it may be interpreted by some. IMO, it probably should be a 20 amp recep. if it is on an individual single simply because the amount of current used by the USB is almost insignificant.

 

[infinity]

The OP was wondering if this device could be installed on a Dedictated 20 Amp Branch Circuit which would require the Receptacle to be 20 Amp Rated if the receptacle is in fact
considered to be counted as only 1 outlet on the strap.

If the USB Ports are considered outlets along with the 15a Receptacle then there is more than 1 outlet and this receptacle would be allowed on a Dedicated 20 Amp Circuit.

I myself do not feel the USB Ports should be counted as Outlets along with the 120v 15a receptacle and shouldnt be allowed if installed on a 20 Amp dedicated circuit

but I'm probably wrong.

NEC definition of outlet:

Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is
taken to supply utilization equipment.

Sounds like the USB portion of that device will use current.

Even a lighted toggle switch can be considered an outlet.

 

[jap]

NEC definition of outlet:


Sounds like the USB portion of that device will use current.

Even a lighted toggle switch can be considered an outlet.

Actually the utilization current is "Taken" from the branch circuit at the point at where the Low Voltage Transformer and charging system terminates to the branch circuit inside the body of the receptacle,but there is no outlet at that point so the charger and transformer are the Utilization equipment.

The USB ports are actually "Providers" of current not "Takers" of current.

But with the charging system and transformer terminated to the branch circuit inside of the receptacle that makes it more than just a single 15a receptacle,so then it wouild be ok for this to be on a 20a branch circuit because a "Dedicated"" 20a branch circuit would require a single 20a receptacle with nothing else attached to it?

 

[Smart $]

...

But with the charging system and transformer terminated to the branch circuit inside of the receptacle that makes it more than just a single 15a receptacle,so then it wouild be ok for this to be on a 20a branch circuit because a "Dedicated"" 20a branch circuit would require a single 20a receptacle with nothing else attached to it?

Okay... but where does Code say you can have one 15A-rated receptacle on a 20A branch circuit?

 

[kwired]

NEC definition of outlet:


Sounds like the USB portion of that device will use current.

Even a lighted toggle switch can be considered an outlet.

Actually the utilization current is "Taken" from the branch circuit at the point at where the Low Voltage Transformer and charging system terminates to the branch circuit inside the body of the receptacle,but there is no outlet at that point so the charger and transformer are the Utilization equipment.

The USB ports are actually "Providers" of current not "Takers" of current.

But with the charging system and transformer terminated to the branch circuit inside of the receptacle that makes it more than just a single 15a receptacle,so then it wouild be ok for this to be on a 20a branch circuit because a "Dedicated"" 20a branch circuit would require a single 20a receptacle with nothing else attached to it?

Okay... but where does Code say you can have one 15A-rated receptacle on a 20A branch circuit?

If you install this thing you do not have a circuit serving a single outlet, you have a receptacle outlet and an outlet supplying the USB charging port, they just happen to be combined in the same assembly.

Though not very common anymore, this is not really any different than a light fixture with a receptacle outlet installed on the side of it. How should one of those be treated?

 

[infinity]

If you install this thing you do not have a circuit serving a single outlet, you have a receptacle outlet and an outlet supplying the USB charging port, they just happen to be combined in the same assembly.

Summed up very nicely.

To say that this is only a single 15 amp receptacle connected to the circuit is to say that the USB circuity is not connected at all.

 

[kwired]

Summed up very nicely.

To say that this is only a single 15 amp receptacle connected to the circuit is to say that the USB circuity is not connected at all.

That is what I was trying to say the whole time, just took 3 or 4 tries to compose the right words.

 

[Smart $]

If you install this thing you do not have a circuit serving a single outlet, you have a receptacle outlet and an outlet supplying the USB charging port, they just happen to be combined in the same assembly.

I agree... but IMO it is one outlet.

Though not very common anymore, this is not really any different than a light fixture with a receptacle outlet installed on the side of it. How should one of those be treated?

Exactly the same.

 

[kwired]

I agree... but IMO it is one outlet.


Exactly the same.

One outlet with two utilization points, or two different outlets? They are on one yoke or strap but they definitely are not the same type of utilization points.

These things are somewhat new,yet probably old enough that 2005 NEC possibly could have mentioned them in some way, maybe the NEC just needs some catching up to specifically cover them - even if it is just defining what they are in art 100 somehow.

Should they be allowed on a small appliance branch circuit?