Wiring methods for residential elevator?

[kbsparky]

I have a situation that has come up this week. We are wiring a new house, which has an elevator in it.

The entire house is wired with NM-B cable, including the circuits feeding the elevator disconnect switches. The wiring method from those disconnects to the elevator equipment itself is installed in conduit, including greenfield.

Now the elevator outfit is telling me that I need to change my wiring method from the main panel from NM cable to conduit for the equipment circuits.

I can't find anything in the NEC that supports this claim. The NEC does not seem to have any preference for the wiring methods used feeding the required disconnects.

Is there something I have missed?

I have requested a Code section source for their assertion ....

 

[John120/240]

Is that a local requirement ? I have wired 4 residential elevators with 8-3 or 6-3 romex & never a problem. We would just run the

romex to a disconnect & the elevator contractor takes it from there.

Tell the elevator contractor to keep his shirt pocket preferences in his shirt pocket.

 

[kbsparky]

Is that a local requirement ? I have wired 4 residential elevators with 8-3 or 6-3 romex & never a problem. We would just run the

romex to a disconnect & the elevator contractor takes it from there.

Tell the elevator contractor to keep his shirt pocket preferences in his shirt pocket.

Exactly my point. We have done several residential elevator installations, and this is the first time I've heard of such a requirement. From their disconnect on, yeah --> conduit, etc. But not feeding to the disconnect ....

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

I can see sleeving the exposed portion of the NM-B feeder as it enters the disco if it's subject to to physical damage.

 

[kbsparky]

Where those disconnects are located, I highly doubt there is much risk associated with physical damage.

 

[John120/240]

Where those disconnects are located, I highly doubt there is much risk associated with physical damage.

Usually on a side wall at the top of the elevator shaft. Along side of our GFCI & the telephone jack. The wires would enter the disconnect

from the back side, which would be the attic space. So not subject to damage.

 

[david luchini]

I can't find anything in the NEC that supports this claim. The NEC does not seem to have any preference for the wiring methods used feeding the required disconnects.

If the disconnect is located in the hoistway or machine space, etc., then the wiring needs to be in rmc, imc, emt, rnc, wireways, or MC, MI or AC cable. See 620.21.

Outside of those spaces, however, I don't see any specific requirements.

 

[John120/240]

If the disconnect is located in the hoistway or machine space, etc., then the wiring needs to be in rmc, imc, emt, rnc, wireways, or MC, MI or AC cable. See 620.21.

Outside of those spaces, however, I don't see any specific requirements.

In a typical residential installation the disconnects are located at the top of the shaft secured to a stud covered with sheet rock. The

romex enters the disconnect from attic space. What ever wiring the elevator contractor installs after the disconnect is not my concern.

 

[kbsparky]

In this instance, all the equipment is located in a basement mechanical room. The disconnects are located outside of the hoistway/shaft mounted 5 feet high off the floor. The equipment is located on the floor next to and under the hoistway/shaft.

No equipment is located at the top.

Everything else in that area is wired in NM cable. I'll try to get a pic later this week.

I have informed the GC that I can't find any Code reference requiring this, and they must provide me with the appropriate Code and section that requires this, or else we will back-charge them for the extra work.

 

[GoldDigger]

In this instance, all the equipment is located in a basement mechanical room. The disconnects are located outside of the hoistway/shaft mounted 5 feet high off the floor. The equipment is located on the floor next to and under the hoistway/shaft.

If there is no separate elevator mechanical room, I suppose the argument could be made that the entire basement mechanical room is the elevator room and any wiring associated with the elevator inside that room must be in conduit. Including the wiring coming into the back of the disconnect! In that case would you be able to add a junction box so that the NM does not reach the disconnect? Or is an un-interrupted home run required from the disconnect to the main panel?

 

[kbsparky]

If there is no separate elevator mechanical room, I suppose the argument could be made that the entire basement mechanical room is the elevator room and any wiring associated with the elevator inside that room must be in conduit. Including the wiring coming into the back of the disconnect! In that case would you be able to add a junction box so that the NM does not reach the disconnect? Or is an un-interrupted home run required from the disconnect to the main panel?

Yeah, it would appear he is engaged in selective enforcement. He wants conduit installed for the wires feeding the disconnect, but is not concerned with the adjacent junction boxes and overhead Chapter 3 wiring methods for other circuits in the immediate area.

His own specifications for the job requested a "10-3 wire with a ground" and that is exactly what we installed. Funny that now he is asking for something different.

 

[kwired]

So if this only applies to the circuit feeding the elevator equipment, then put a subpanel right next to the first elevator equipment enclosure and it will only apply to a circuit that is only a few inches to a few feet long. Everything else ahead of that is just premises wiring, and not specifically elevator wiring. You could even connect additional non elevator loads to this panel, assuming you have enough capacity to handle the load.

 

[kbsparky]

Not worth the trouble. I will install a conduit sleeve to the ceiling area if necessary, but only to the extent that it meets with other romex runs in the same area.

According to 620.21, I could use PVC and I have a good mind to use it just for spite :blink:

 

[iwire]

Elevator guys are twice the prima donnas that electrcians are .... and that takes some doing.

I have had them talk to me like I was a total idiot as they explained to me how the new elevator controller could not function without a copper EGC. This was in an industrial building where every circuit used the RMC as the EGC. I gave him a copper EGC back to the panel, from there it was RMC.

Strangely it still worked.

 

[peter d]

Elevator guys are twice the prima donnas that electrcians are .... and that takes some doing.

I have had them talk to me like I was a total idiot as they explained to me how the new elevator controller could not function without a copper EGC. This was in an industrial building where every circuit used the RMC as the EGC. I gave him a copper EGC back to the panel, from there it was RMC.

Strangely it still worked.

How on earth did it still work without a copper EGC? Magic?

 

[iwire]

How on earth did it still work without a copper EGC? Magic?

You might have been there, Foxboro Co in Foxboro?

 

[peter d]

You might have been there, Foxboro Co in Foxboro?

Yes, actually I was involved with that installation. I didn't realize that's what you were referring to. :lol: