Has anyone seen a listed 3p breaker handle tie?

[Cjmcelectric]

Just wondering if anyone has seen listed 3p handle ties? I couldn't find them in my searches. Is there a reason? maybe because the tripping mechanism cant trip three breakers.
Thanks

 

[stevebea]

Just wondering if anyone has seen listed 3p handle ties? I couldn't find them in my searches. Is there a reason? maybe because the tripping mechanism cant trip three breakers.
Thanks

I was looking for 3 pole handle tie some time ago and could not find one through any of our suppliers..... not sure why.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I was looking for 3 pole handle tie some time ago and could not find one through any of our suppliers..... not sure why.

I know that GE makes them....

 

[Gregg Harris]

Just wondering if anyone has seen listed 3p handle ties? I couldn't find them in my searches. Is there a reason? maybe because the tripping mechanism cant trip three breakers.
Thanks

The handle ties ar not designed for the purpose of tripping all three circuits during a fault. there purpose it to disconect all conductors manually as in a disconect.

 

[kwired]

Square D QO has them here is link to product instructions.

 

[norcal]

What happens when someone uses a 3 pole handle tie w/ 3- 120/240V rated single pole breakers on a 240V 3? circuit? That would be one reason why they are a rare item. Have seen them the single poles used for a 3? circuit w/ a copper wire "handle tie" , a piece of solid insulated 10 AWG copper make a good but unapproved handle tie for QO breakers.

 

[iwire]

I know that GE makes them....

Yes, I have installed many.

 

[kwired]

What happens when someone uses a 3 pole handle tie w/ 3- 120/240V rated single pole breakers on a 240V 3? circuit? That would be one reason why they are a rare item. Have seen them the single poles used for a 3? circuit w/ a copper wire "handle tie" , a piece of solid insulated 10 AWG copper make a good but unapproved handle tie for QO breakers.

First the single pole breakers will not be rated 120/240 or there may not be too much of a problem other than the need for common trip.

From the link I provided for QO 3 pole handle tie instructions:

HAZARD OF ELECTRIC SHOCK,
BURN, OR EXPLOSION HAZARD
OF EQUIPMENT DAMAGE
Handle tie is not intended to provide
common 3-phase 240 V overcurrent
protection.

Failure to observe this
instruction can result in minor or
moderate injury and property
damage.

The reason for this probably is the fact that the single pole breakers are not rated 120/240, plus they don't have common trip. But the fact you are allowed to use them at all for MWBC? There is some risk of line to line fault so they would have to be able to handle a 240 volt fault.

 

[jim dungar]

The reason for this probably is the fact that the single pole breakers are not rated 120/240, plus they don't have common trip. But the fact you are allowed to use them at all for MWBC? There is some risk of line to line fault so they would have to be able to handle a 240 volt fault.

The reason for the warning is that the handle tie is not intended, and cannot be relied on, to provide a common trip. Opening only (1) leg of a three phase load, such as a motor, can cause significant issues then opening (1) leg of a single phase load.

 

[kwired]

The reason for the warning is that the handle tie is not intended, and cannot be relied on, to provide a common trip. Opening only (1) leg of a three phase load, such as a motor, can cause significant issues then opening (1) leg of a single phase load.

I agree to a certain extent. Common trip for a 240 volt circuit - yes but for disconnection reasons not single phasing protection. Opening 1 leg of a three phase load - it is not a good idea to open only 1 leg yet if you have fuses for overcurrent protection that can easily happen. Additional motor overload protection will still protect the motor when that happens.

The fact that the breakers are only 120 volt rated is possibly part of reason you can not use handle ties instead of a 2 or 3 pole breaker for 240 volt loads, IDK, seems logical though.

 

[jim dungar]

I agree to a certain extent.

Go back and read the handle tie warning again.
It specifically mentions overcurrent protection, not disconnecting.

The installation instructions and warnings associated with the 1-pole breakers will address your points concerning their voltage and interrupting ratings.

 

[kwired]

Go back and read the handle tie warning again.
It specifically mentions overcurrent protection, not disconnecting.

The installation instructions and warnings associated with the 1-pole breakers will address your points concerning their voltage and interrupting ratings.

I didn't think I had a dispute with that. I think we agree on things here, yet have some differences - if that makes any sense.

 

[Cjmcelectric]

I just can't understand why I see 2 pole breaker handles but I haven't seen 3 pole. Thanks for the square d product info. I guess it really isn't a viable option for changing to simultaneous trip of ocp. Does this just make the Mwbc lose it ocp ?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The reason for the warning is that the handle tie is not intended, and cannot be relied on, to provide a common trip. Opening only (1) leg of a three phase load, such as a motor, can cause significant issues then opening (1) leg of a single phase load.

However, if the votlage to ground is 120 volts, the code does permit the use of single pole breakers with handle ties for line to line loads like motors.

 

[jim dungar]

However, if the votlage to ground is 120 volts, the code does permit the use of single pole breakers with handle ties for line to line loads like motors.

The NEC does, but in the referenced instructions, the manufacturer is warning against using a specific handle tie for overcurrent protection.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The NEC does, but in the referenced instructions, the manufacturer is warning against using a specific handle tie for overcurrent protection.

And the handle tie is not being used for overcurrent protection in that case. It is only being used as a means of disconnect. The code rule does not require a common trip device for line to line loads where the voltage does not exceed 120 volts to ground.

 

[Ragin Cajun]

I wonder if there is enough "oomph" from a single pole breaker to trip the other two single pole breakers via the handle tie?

RC

 

[GoldDigger]

I wonder if there is enough "oomph" from a single pole breaker to trip the other two single pole breakers via the handle tie?

RC

If the tripped handle only moves to an intermediate position instead of the full off position, it is very unlikely that it will trip the tied breaker(s), with or without "oomph".
Hence the need for a common trip mechanism instead.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I wonder if there is enough "oomph" from a single pole breaker to trip the other two single pole breakers via the handle tie?

RC

Unlikely because of the requirement that the handle be "trip free", that is the breaker will trip even if the handle has been locked in the on position.