Noise from Electronic T-5 Ballasts

[harbormaster]

Installed these new 6 lamp high bays in a metal building on the coast and the customer is complaining that he can't play a radio or TV for the noise emanating from the ballasts!

Anyone ran into this and have a solution?

Thanks

 

[K8MHZ]

Installed these new 6 lamp high bays in a metal building on the coast and the customer is complaining that he can't play a radio or TV for the noise emanating from the ballasts!

Anyone ran into this and have a solution?

Thanks

This is a fairly common problem.

You may have to replace the ballasts with ballasts that feature RFI suppression. Not all do, and AFAIK, there is no requirement for them.

 

[ELA]

"The electronic ballast shall comply with FCC rules and regulations Part 18 concerning the generation of both EMI (electromagnetic interference) and RFI (radio frequency interference)."

The FCC limits the amount of radiated EMI that fluorescent lighting systems may produce at Frequencies from 30 - 1000Mhz. ( excludes the AM band and as I am sure he knows, 8MHZ )
Limit is 1000 microvolts for industrial and commercial and 250 microvolts for consumer applications.

As mentioned all ballasts are not equal. Proper grounding may also play a role.

 

[gar]

130223-2141 EST

harbormaster:

Get a Corcom 5VR1 5A 120/250 V noise filter.

Experiment with one fixture. Operate the one fixture with no other fixtures powered. Sense the noise level with the fixture powered and not powered.

Install the 5VR1 inside the test fixture. Again test the noise level with and without power to the fixture.

Based on the results --- if there appears to be value, then experiment with a greater number of fixtures.

.

 

[mike_kilroy]

2 ways for noise to get to radio

2 ways for noise to get to radio

If you are lazy like me, you may want to run one more simple test before trying inline AC low pass filters...

Noise is either getting into radio(s) via RF thru radiation or via AC power line. So try a radio UNPLUGGED running on batteries first.

If noise is still there, an AC line filter won't help. If noise is gone then the line filter will help.

There is horrendous noise put on the AC power line by those; I use X10 PLC things and any type florescents used must have line filters or X10 is useless.

 

[harbormaster]

Thanks much for the responses guys!

 

[K8MHZ]

130223-2141 EST

harbormaster:

Get a Corcom 5VR1 5A 120/250 V noise filter.

Experiment with one fixture. Operate the one fixture with no other fixtures powered. Sense the noise level with the fixture powered and not powered.

Install the 5VR1 inside the test fixture. Again test the noise level with and without power to the fixture.

Based on the results --- if there appears to be value, then experiment with a greater number of fixtures.

.

If tried, I would like to know of the results.

Thanks

 

[harbormaster]

If tried, I would like to know of the results.

Thanks

Will do! Ordered one today!

 

[mike_kilroy]

and I would like to know if noise is same or gone with battery radio too please!

 

[kbsparky]

We get the same problem with a jobsite radio when those 18V portable tool battery charges are plugged in nearby.

Have to unplug the radio and operate on battery power when that happens.

 

[gar]

130226-2116 EST

Starting in the early 60s I put a CD filter equivalent to the Corcom in all my magnetic ballast fluorescents. Very substantial reduction in RFI (Radio Frequency Interference). When I started building gaging equipment I used the same filter at the input to the power supply. At some point the CD filters became unavailable, and I switched to the Corcom.

It will be interesting to see if this reduces the RFI from the electronic ballast fixtures.

.

 

[spark master]

You need to contact a ballast manufacturer. I forget the company, but I once swapped out 20 ballast with noise rated ballast just for that reason.

 

[Ragin Cajun]

I have six, two lamp, T5HO fixtures in my office. No issues at all. BUT, these are office type fixtures so I assume the ballasts are low noise as compared to high bay ballasts??

I started out with step ballasts and went to Lutron dimmable and neither gave me noise issues.

Just glad they are "quiet".

Food for thought for high bay applications where noise is an issue in the "operational" environment.

RC

 

[K8MHZ]

We get the same problem with a jobsite radio when those 18V portable tool battery charges are plugged in nearby.

Have to unplug the radio and operate on battery power when that happens.

Yes, portable tool chargers are noisy. So are aquarium heaters, touch lamps and electric blankets.

At least two parts of CFR47 (Parts 15 and 18) make the manufacture of electronic products that produce RFI/EMI illegal. The FCC totally ignores the problem. I have never heard the FCC force a manufacturer into compliance of the standards they agreed to and label the mdse. as such.

I haven't looked lately, but CFLs used to have a warning on them not to use them near marine radio equipment. That's the only time I have seen any admission by a manufacturer that a product emits RFI/EMI.

 

[ELA]

The FCC does not totally ignore the problem.

Code of Federal Regulations, Title 47, Part 15 (47 CFR 15) is an oft-quoted part of Federal Communications Commission (FCC) rules and regulations

All kinds of electronic equipment ( unintentional radiators) are tested to FCC standards every day.



http://transition.fcc.gov/eb/marketing/

With respect to this particular situation there are "holes" in the regulations that allow some interference, in certain bands, depending upon whether the offending frequency is radiated or conducted.

 

[gar]

130327-0800 EDT

harbormaster:

Have you run any filter experiments?

.

 

[Lost_RFTech]

ELA is very much correct in that the FCC enforces the Title 47 rule parts. I spent decades testing or contracting test services and addressing design deficiencies for various rule parts under Title 47 - parts 15 and 95 in particular. Some of the activities were specifically to address individual situations much like the one detailed above, the need to address those issues having been triggered by citizen complaints to the FCC.

This light issue should be addressed with the fixture manufacterer - unless there is some rule part that specifically excludes these fixtures, the onous is on the interfering device manufacturer to remedy the situation. There could have been a component change or manufacturing change that is causing the problem. Most routine manufacturing/production tests are not adequate to identify things like this.

I derned sure wouldn't be eating the costs of some RFI suppression solution without pursuing this avenue.

 

[steve66]

A lot of this depends on how stong the radio or TV siginal is.

If they are trying to tune in a weak station, the ballasts may comply with the FCC, but the noise from the ballasts will still swamp the desired signal.

If you get a strong enough radio or TV signal, the automatic gain control on the radio or TV will turn down the amplification, and the noise will not be heard if the ballasts are working properly.

 

[gar]

130327-1026 EDT

Personally I don't expect much from the FCC.

They do nothing about "do not call" violations, they won't address adequately problems with ATT and Internet connections. Further the government is totally broke.

.

 

[MarineTech]

If you look at the following spec sheet:

http://www.unvlt.com/literature/navigator/pdfs/Sect_2_Electronic.pdf

Page 2-5 on EMI/RFI, you have models that are non-consumer and consumer for residential use.