USB Receptacle

[kwired]

I was doing donuts in the parking lot on a snow day in High Shool. The principle came out and pulled open my truck door and yelled
"What's your name?" I said Bob, He said Bob Who? I said Bob Jones,,,,,, Later in Automotive class they came over the loud speaker
and said please send "Bob Jones" to the office. Everyone looked around wondering who the heck Bob Jones was until I fessed up and walked to the principles office.

I wished I would have been more honest that day, the outcome would have been a lot better.

That doesn't work at the small schools around here. Principal knows all the students, unless maybe it is early in their first year at a school that is new to them.

 

[jap]

Small school also,,, new principle.

 

[97catintenn]

Mine was listed as on backorder, and it's here now! light almond

Pretty sweet!

 

[Cavie]

Outlet A point on the wireing system at which current is taken to supply utilization equiupment. This device is the utilization peice of equipment providing and controling the MA voltage to the USB. I would call this a single outlet due to the fact that the USB is dedicated. But than what do I know I'm just a dumb 'lectrician.

 

[GoldDigger]

Outlet A point on the wireing system at which current is taken to supply utilization equiupment. This device is the utilization peice of equipment providing and controling the MA voltage to the USB. I would call this a single outlet due to the fact that the USB is dedicated.

You have just raised a whole new point for us to argue about.
So far the main discussion has been about whether this was a single or triple receptacle. Now we have to consider whether it, combined with the single gang box it is in, is one or two outlets!

 

[jap]

To me the box itself is not an outlet,its an opening,to allow access to the wiring system , and current cant be taken from the box, only from the wiring inside the box.

 

[K8MHZ]

To me the box itself is not an outlet,its an opening,to allow access to the wiring system , and current cant be taken from the box, only from the wiring inside the box.

Agreed.

Now would you also agree that there is one 120 VAC outlet (single receptacle) and one 5 VDC outlet (multi-receptacle) for a total of two outlets and three receptacles?

That's how I see it, anyway.

 

[jap]

Agreed.

Now would you also agree that there is one 120 VAC outlet (single receptacle) and one 5 VDC outlet (multi-receptacle) for a total of two outlets and three receptacles?

That's how I see it, anyway.

No, I dont agree, but I'll save my reasoning for the Inspector that calls me out on it if I ever decide to put one of these on a 20 amp dedicated circuit.

 

[PetrosA]

I've been looking into these for a while and noticed that the supplied current varies from a low of around 1.7A (I think that was a Cooper made one) up to 3.0A for the Hubbell device (which has two 120V receptacles built in, so the whole thread becomes moot ). I wonder how much of our perception of the USB charging ports as receptacles or not depends on our assumption that they'll only get used for charging phones. If a company were to design and market a 3W LED desk lamp with a USB cord on it for use in these USB charging ports, would we start thinking of them as receptacles? How will a world where whole house lighting can be run on Class 2 low voltage circuits change our thinking?

 

[K8MHZ]

I've been looking into these for a while and noticed that the supplied current varies from a low of around 1.7A (I think that was a Cooper made one) up to 3.0A for the Hubbell device (which has two 120V receptacles built in, so the whole thread becomes moot ). I wonder how much of our perception of the USB charging ports as receptacles or not depends on our assumption that they'll only get used for charging phones. If a company were to design and market a 3W LED desk lamp with a USB cord on it for use in these USB charging ports, would we start thinking of them as receptacles? How will a world where whole house lighting can be run on Class 2 low voltage circuits change our thinking?

I have a half dozen lights that use power from a USB port slash receptacle. I don't know if they are 3 watts or not, but all they are is an LED on a flexible stem that plugs into the USB. Something like this, only with a single LED

You can also get:

Fans

A single can beverage cooler

A humidifier

A paper shredder and more from places like this:

http://www.tmart.com/USB-Home-Improvement/

 

[kwired]

I've been looking into these for a while and noticed that the supplied current varies from a low of around 1.7A (I think that was a Cooper made one) up to 3.0A for the Hubbell device (which has two 120V receptacles built in, so the whole thread becomes moot ). I wonder how much of our perception of the USB charging ports as receptacles or not depends on our assumption that they'll only get used for charging phones. If a company were to design and market a 3W LED desk lamp with a USB cord on it for use in these USB charging ports, would we start thinking of them as receptacles? How will a world where whole house lighting can be run on Class 2 low voltage circuits change our thinking?

As mentioned there are already many devices other than chargers that can be supplied by these.

Even if only charging a cell phone, power is still being transferred to a load and it meets definitions of an outlet, it just happens to be a low level of energy supplied as compared to what the 15 amp 125 volt receptacle can provide, but is all derived from the same input.

 

[K8MHZ]

As mentioned there are already many devices other than chargers that can be supplied by these.

Even if only charging a cell phone, power is still being transferred to a load and it meets definitions of an outlet, it just happens to be a low level of energy supplied as compared to what the 15 amp 125 volt receptacle can provide, but is all derived from the same input.

And, there is more to come:

In July 2012 the USB Promoters Group announced the finalization of the USB Power Delivery ("PD") specification, an extension that specifies using certified "PD aware" USB cables with standard USB type A/B connectors to deliver up to 100 W of power at 20V. For PD-aware cables with USB-micro B/AB connectors the maximum power supported is up to 60W at 20V, 36W at 12V and 10W at 5V. In all cases, either host-to-device or device-to-host configurations are supported.^[71] The intent is to permit uniformly charging laptops, tablets, USB-powered disks and similarly higher power consumer electronics, as a natural extension of existing European and Chinese mobile telephone charging standards.^[72]

From the same page:

Some non-standard USB devices use the 5 V power supply without participating in a proper USB network which negotiates power draws with the host interface. These are usually referred to as USB decorations. The typical example is a USB-powered keyboard light; fans, mug coolers and heaters, battery chargers, miniature vacuum cleaners, and even miniature lava lamps are available. In most cases, these items contain no digital circuitry, and thus are not Standard compliant USB devices at all.

Vacuum cleaners?

Lava lamps???

The new standard will allow 100 watts. With LED technology, that is plenty to provide lighting for a home, and I am sure manufactures will take advantage of the new standard and make more powerful accessories.

 

[kwired]

And, there is more to come:



From the same page:



Vacuum cleaners?

Lava lamps???

The new standard will allow 100 watts. With LED technology, that is plenty to provide lighting for a home, and I am sure manufactures will take advantage of the new standard and make more powerful accessories.

supplying this equipment from a wall outlet USB port is one thing, but how many people will overload something in their computer if they start to use them from a port on their computers? A notebook running on its battery will definitely have a shorter run time with some of that stuff being supplied.

 

[K8MHZ]

supplying this equipment from a wall outlet USB port is one thing, but how many people will overload something in their computer if they start to use them from a port on their computers?

The new standard requires 'smart cables' that will communicate with any receptacle that can supply more than 2.1 amps at 5 volts. Up to 20 volts is available using the same receptacle. (An entirely different NEC violation discussion?) All the power supplies are current limited.

A notebook running on its battery will definitely have a shorter run time with some of that stuff being supplied.

Indeed, but I think the target market is laptops that are plugged in and desktops. Now, with the USB power supplies being incorporated into household receptacles, they have a new target market area.

 

[kwired]

Now, with the USB power supplies being incorporated into household receptacles, they have a new target market area.

So far the only one I have seen is my free one from P&S they need to market harder at least in area where I live.

I still haven't installed my free one yet, can't decide where to install it. Every place where I thought of installing it seems I can't really give up one 125 volt receptacle so that means adding one more gang to wherever I do put it.

My phone charger is below my desk right now with cord through a grommet in the desktop. But I would rather have the USB port above the desk but receptacle that is located above desk usually has both receptacles used most of the time. Such a big decision to make.

 

[GoldDigger]

Indeed, but I think the target market is laptops that are plugged in and desktops. Now, with the USB power supplies being incorporated into household receptacles, they have a new target market area.

I would like to know (although I think I know the answer!) whether the USB connectors in the receptacle under discussion have a limit of more than 2.1 amps at 5 volts (each or jointly) and if they do, do they incorporate the digital circuitry required for power negotiation.
Or, stating the question another way, are these dumb or smart USB power supplies?

PS: My sample has not arrived yet, so I am asking others.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Mine sez "Class 2, 5Vdc, 2.1A" on the plate.

 

[K8MHZ]

I would like to know (although I think I know the answer!) whether the USB connectors in the receptacle under discussion have a limit of more than 2.1 amps at 5 volts (each or jointly) and if they do, do they incorporate the digital circuitry required for power negotiation.
Or, stating the question another way, are these dumb or smart USB power supplies?

PS: My sample has not arrived yet, so I am asking others.

It's just a current limited device, like a wall wart. The ones being given out are 'dumb' as opposed to the ones that communicate with the cable. If you short out the + and the - , all you will get is 2.1 amps of current, max.

 

[K8MHZ]

Mine sez "Class 2, 5Vdc, 2.1A" on the plate.

Covered under 725.121 (2008) - .133

And Table 11(b) in Chapter 9.

 

[wlittle]

Wasted power draw

Wasted power draw

Just another thought - unlike a wall wart, you are not able to disconnect these, so you have a little power eater that can't be shut off. at least to my knowledge...