GEC questions

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Strummed

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NJ
Sorry for all the questions, but this forum is great :D

I've been set in my ways for a long time, but now I am looking for ways to save when it's possible.

When doing a 200A service upgrade the water pipe/meter and ground rods will be on the opposite side of the basement, a long run. Instead of running a separate #4 and #6 from the panel, could you run one #4 to the meter, jump the meter, then come out of that clamp with a #6 to go to the ground rods?

Second question, has anyone had any problems using black insulated #4 and #6 THHN for the GEC? I've always used black out of convenience and never failed, but I was told that some inspectors will cite it. Any issues?
 
augie47

augie47

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State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
I'm not real clear on your question, but you are allowed to tap onto a GEC to run to any electrode.
For instance if you had a #4 from your meter to a ground rod, you can tap onto the #4 with any approved means.
You do have to watch and not introduce a "weak link", for instance if the conductor in the above example to your rod was a #6, you can't tap onto it with a #4

I know of no Code requirement for color on a GEC.
 
infinity

infinity

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A few graphics:

1113920706_2.jpg


1100202225_2.jpg
 
S

Strummed

Senior Member
Location
NJ
augie47 said:
I'm not real clear on your question, but you are allowed to tap onto a GEC to run to any electrode.
For instance if you had a #4 from your meter to a ground rod, you can tap onto the #4 with any approved means.
You do have to watch and not introduce a "weak link", for instance if the conductor in the above example to your rod was a #6, you can't tap onto it with a #4
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I mean, good to know.

It just seems odd that I can throw a split bolt on the #4 GEC going to the water pipe in order to come off of it with a #6 going to ground rods- yet I can't use a split bolt to extend the #6 going to the ground rods since in that case it would need to be irreversible.

I know of no Code requirement for color on a GEC.
Click to expand...

I guess the assumption that I heard of was based off of 200.6, but that doesn't apply to the GEC at all.
 
infinity

infinity

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Strummed said:
It just seems odd that I can throw a split bolt on the #4 GEC going to the water pipe in order to come off of it with a #6 going to ground rods- yet I can't use a split bolt to extend the #6 going to the ground rods since in that case it would need to be irreversible.
Click to expand...

The connection to a GEC can be a split bolt and is not required to be irreversible since the connecting conductor is a bonding jumper and not a GEC. As you've mentioned a splice in the GEC requires an irreversible connection.
 
S

Strummed

Senior Member
Location
NJ
infinity said:
The connection to a GEC can be a split bolt and is not required to be irreversible since the connecting conductor is a bonding jumper and not a GEC. As you've mentioned a splice in the GEC requires an irreversible connection.
Click to expand...
I see, thanks. And thanks for the image.

I actually just read a post of your in an older thread in which you said that you usually use Al for the water pipe GEC. That's another thing that I heard other EC's in NJ say they weren't allowed to do. Lot's of gossip :roll: I guess you've had no problem with it, huh? What do you usually use, bare, XHHW, or THHN?
 
infinity

infinity

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New Jersey
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Journeyman Electrician
To the water pipe, Aluminum XHHW. Cheap and kind of stiff which makes it look decent when you staple it in place. For a 200 amp service if you compare #4 Cu to #2 Al you'll see quite a difference in price especially for a long run.
 
M

Mesh

Member
Location
US
infinity said:
To the water pipe, Aluminum XHHW. Cheap and kind of stiff which makes it look decent when you staple it in place. For a 200 amp service if you compare #4 Cu to #2 Al you'll see quite a difference in price especially for a long run.
Click to expand...

I may be mistaken, but most panels that I've seen only allow up to #4 on the neutral bar. How do you normally terminate the #2 Al inside of the panel?

Also, have you ever had a problem with inspectors complaining about whether the pipe clamp is listed for Al?

Thanks.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Chapel Hill, NC
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Mesh said:
I may be mistaken, but most panels that I've seen only allow up to #4 on the neutral bar. How do you normally terminate the #2 Al inside of the panel?

Also, have you ever had a problem with inspectors complaining about whether the pipe clamp is listed for Al?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

There are lugs with prongs that are made to fit under the screws of the ground bar or neutral bars. They are usually made for a specific panel.

31uym44DTtL._SL500_SY160_.jpg
 
infinity

infinity

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Staff member
Location
New Jersey
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Mesh said:
I may be mistaken, but most panels that I've seen only allow up to #4 on the neutral bar. How do you normally terminate the #2 Al inside of the panel?

Also, have you ever had a problem with inspectors complaining about whether the pipe clamp is listed for Al?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

I've never installed a 200 amp service panel that didn't accept a #2 GEC, but if it did Dennis gave you a solution. As far as the water pipe all you need is a clamp that is listed for aluminum and copper.
 
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