Residential 200 Meter/Main and Panel options (CH-CH vs SqD-QO)

[Flux]

Hello all, I am new to the forum and new to electrical contracting just received my unrestricted license :blink:. I have been an electrician for 15 years now commercial mainly and I am used to everything being engineered and speced in a print so this will probably not be the first question I pose to the forum.
This is my first residential new service and panel swap on my own and I am trying to decide which brand of equipment to use. I am in Atlanta so I have access to it all though the supply houses I am familiar with have primarily Cutler Hammer residential equipment in limited supply.
I know this thread has been posted in the past but as manufacturers update and re-engineer almost constantly I thought a updated thread couldn't hurt.
Coming from the commercial/industrial side I have to say I like solid gear.
I am leaning towards Cutler Hammer as the have a meter/main combo Model # CMBER88B200BTS CH type copper bus 22,000 IR as where Square D only has them in the Homeline variety aluminum bus 22,000 IR.
I don't want to mix and match but the Square D QO breakers seem to be the best as far as quick trip and longevity and have the pretty orange trip window. Cutler Hammer seems to have a bit of a checked past but most of you seasoned guys use it exclusively hands down in residential apps. I would like to hear a update on Cutler Hammer for those guys that have been using them exclusively in homes how is there current track record with you? How about the arc fault and GFCI breakers and nuisance tripping vs Square D QO?
Thanks and thanks for all your past post I have read them all on this subject. :thumbsup:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have used Cutler Hammer, Seimens, and Ge and found them all to be sufficient. I used to use Cutler Hammer and it is a great product but if the price difference is significant then any of them will do. Sq. D also has a great name.

 

[cpinetree]

We seem to use an even split of Cutler CH and Square D QO, both work equally well.

QO does have a meter main combo,8/16 circuit, 22kaic, 200amp main, look at QC816F200C: http://products.schneider-electric.us/products-services/product-detail/?event=productDetail&countryCode=us&partNumber=QC816F200C

 

[Flux]

Thanks just wondering everybody seems so keen on the copper bus but is that just restricted to the panel or do you guys use copper bus for your service as well? What about the service wire? Cpinetree I saw that SqD meter combo and that price is way out of line the CH-CH combo is priced around 163.00.

 

[Flux]

Thanks Dennis you where one of the poster I have been reading and I remember you saying you liked CH-CH. Hey cpinetree did you see the price on that joker the Cutler Hammer one is $160 bucks just 30 bucks more then your average.

 

[Flux]

I guess I should state that it is my sisters place so I have the job no matter a few hundred, just trying to do it as if it where mine as she plans to retire in it.

 

[cpinetree]

We are set up on rebate programs, so I buy both QO and CH at about the same level.
FWIW I would not have a problem installing either QO or CH in my own home. :happyyes:

 

[cpinetree]

I saw that SqD meter combo and that price is way out of line the CH-CH combo is priced around 163.00.

The link is to Square D's website showing a list price, not the street price or even the rebated price.

Here is a link to Cutler list price $2,073.00 Now that is expensive.
http://www.plccenter.com/en-US/Buy/CUTLER%20HAMMER/CMBER88B200BTS

 

[gk351]

SQD homeline doesnt have the orange trip window. Only QO does. I only install Square D, unless Im already working in existing equipment, Regardless of price. I do this for mulitple
reasons. If I have a problem with Square D COmponets, I goto my Supplier, they always have my back because they know Im Pro Square D and dont shop around on them. Also, Im
a big part numbers type of guy, and I find it easiest to only memorize one companies set of part numbers. Just my tid bit....

 

[Flux]

cpinetree yes it is that would leave me about 200 profit for the job I would be better off going back to waiting on a (call out) at the hall :slaphead:thank god we don't pay list.
gk351 yes the QO is what I was talking about I don't want to install homeline there was a elec. contractor I used to work for, one day he told me something that has always stuck in my head
" I am not out here to be the cheapest "
I need to find out about this rebate program. Unfortunately Atlanta is home to the big Orange box I did some work at there corporate office last year actually, the first one was up the street from the neighborhood where I grew up I think the local supplies have given up on residential at least I can't find one in the city that has more than one choice for service equipment:thumbsdown:.

 

[mbrooke]

QO bit cheaper around here than CH-CH and better than CH-CH if you ask me.


CH-CH has one advantage, they offer plug on neutral AFCIs, no pig tails. Huge labor saver.

 

[eHunter]

QO bit cheaper around here than CH-CH and better than CH-CH if you ask me.


CH-CH has one advantage, they offer plug on neutral AFCIs, no pig tails. Huge labor saver.

Sq D also offers a panel with plug on neitral.
http://products.schneider-electric....s/residential/qo-plug-on-neutral-load-center/

 

[mbrooke]

When did they come out. Ive been hearing rumors for months on plug on AFCIs and full lenghth neutrals but never knew it came about so soon.

 

[jimman]

Square D Brand

Square D Brand

I prefer the Square D series, and have never had an issue with them. I use the homeline series with the 8/16. I also like that I can get a generator lockout panel to fit these, and have installed a lot of them. My understanding is the homeline is the same internal components, just doesn't have the red indicator window. In addition, the Square D is rated for 200 amp continuous load, whereas all the CH I have installed have a 175 continuous rating (still listed as 200) amps.

 

[gk351]

We recently started using Meter main combos, mainly using Milbank. Im a Square D guy, and Milbanks have Siemens components. It doenst thrill me, but I still sleep at night. So I was thumbing through my Square D Digest and looked up the QO Meter Main Combo. I talked to my inside salesman....quoted me $975.0!!!!! I told him I could deal with Milbank for that price. So I was talking with my counter sales guy, he like the idea of moving away from Milbank, and bringing in the Square D QO version. Called me today, he says he will start stocking the Homeline verison for $202, and the QO version for $235!!! Im starting to lose faith in my inside salesman!!!! I also saw Square D's version of the plug on Neutral AFI/GFI kits. Pretty interesting, but very labor savings and they claim only 10% higher than standard normal load center.

 

[Flux]

Thanks everyone who posted I bought and mounted a Square D QO Meter/Main $160.00 but after reading through the POCO
Blue Book I came to find out that all meter bases effective JAN 1 have to be ringless type (so they can open and examine the
base without pulling the meter) the owner at one of the only Square D supply houses in town (which looks like it is on the outs)
had was ringed ( which he sold me without a word ) and when I called him about it he said that Squared D said they don't have
a big enough market to make a ringless type but that I should be fine and call him when the POCO hooks it up:rant: like I am going
to roll the dice on his word and ignore what the POCO book says and the POCO engineer backs up:roll:. Plus Square D does not sell a
QO 40/40 200 amp panel so I had to buy a 42 space 225 amp panel which with breakers came to $420 when I can pick up a QO
30/40 for $175 at the orange box with breakers $250. I brought everything back to the supply house and washed my hands he
refunded my 600 +. I ended up picking up a 200 amp meter base from the POCO free and a 200 amp service disco $125.

Next time I am going to my favorite supply house they supply a CH/CH 200 amp panel 40/40 for $90 before the contractor incentive
that CH offers. I have to say I love the the stab design on the CH the breakers look stout with a extra piece of metal around the
connection point to the bus and they feel solid unlike the Siemens breakers which feel cheap and are half the weight of the CH and QO.
QO is no doubt a good product but the QO product line is stagnating as where CH/CH is a good product that the old supply houses in
town all carry they are innovating and filling the needs of the higher end customers buy offering options, middle ground pricing, and
quality in my humble opinion. The guy at the supply house said they have had no problem with CH/CH breakers. I am tempted to go
with homeline 40/40 $90 but I told the customer I would use QO as it has a copper bus. The only draw back so far that I can see is
that CH/CH arc faults are on the pricey side compared to QO.

 

[readydave8]

As far as CH branch breakers vs Siemens, I have not noticed much difference in failure rate. Several times have gone on trouble calls where cover missing on CH panel (sold separately, unlike others), corrected problem by installing cover which held the breakers in tight to bus bar, without cover some were loose.

I have thought for a long time that brand preference is not always rational. While researching new truck, found that Consumer's Reports gave Nissan Frontier higher rating for reliablility than Toyota Tacoma, but Tacoma scored higher on customer satisfaction. Other factors than reliability went into satisfaction score, but it should have strongly influenced score. So Toyota is better because it's better, even if it breaks more. I bought the Nissan.

 

[Flux]

Siemens is in Atlanta in full force the boxes say Siemens Norcoss GA which is in the Atlanta area so they would probably be the most affordable the problem is there track record is not to hot. To me Siemens are IEC and CH/CH QO are NEMA. I originally asked for a update as to different manufacturer resi panels and breakers to find out what the current standing was not unlike your Nissan vs Toyota comparison.

 

[readydave8]

Siemens is in Atlanta in full force the boxes say Siemens Norcoss GA which is in the Atlanta area so they would probably be the most affordable the problem is there track record is not to hot. To me Siemens are IEC and CH/CH QO are NEMA. I originally asked for a update as to different manufacturer resi panels and breakers to find out what the current standing was not unlike your Nissan vs Toyota comparison.

I have not noticed many problems with Siemens, CH, nor Square D. I stopped using Bryant when I noticed large amount of failures, for example several where if main breaker shut off, hard to turn back on. I don't like GE but can't remember why. Challenger seemed flimsy and also had problems with main breakers. Bought and installed several FPE's in late 70's-early 80's, at least one of which is still in service (I later bought the house for a rental).

 

[Flux]

Thanks for the input I have to say Siemens is very enticing as the sell meter/main combos in ringless type already, the other manufacturers are still catching up. Siemens makes the meter bases the POCO supplies. If I went with them I would want to buy the meter/main and the panel to coordinate a bit just can't get over the cheap feel of there breakers.