New home arc faults driving me crazy

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GoldDigger

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Placerville, CA, USA
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Retired PV System Designer
LEO2854 said:
That is the first one I've seen , I'll bet it will save lot's of time,It's only money Uncle Bill..:D
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Between the detailed below-trip fault indications and the ability to be in two places at once, it seems to be a real winner. Now if only it could reset the breaker remotely.... :)
Some thought required on how useful it would be if the breaker trips on wiring only.
 
LEO2854

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
GoldDigger said:
Between the detailed below-trip fault indications and the ability to be in two places at once, it seems to be a real winner. Now if only it could reset the breaker remotely.... :)
Some thought required on how useful it would be if the breaker trips on wiring only.
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Maybe they will come out with an iPhone app for that ,That will bill the customer as well....::)
 
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Speshulk

Senior Member
Location
NY
electricblue said:
Whenever I do a new home and fire up the circuits at trim out I always have the arc faults trip and I have to go pull everything apart. I never find anything. It just goes away. Loose wire nuts I don't know. Anybody have this problem? Any advise here? It really sux putting everything in just to take it back out.
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When you install devices, do you prebend the wiring in the box?
 
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mlnk

Senior Member
In our company we first pigtail the bare grounds to a 6 inch piece of insulated green #12 and push it to the back of the box. We also use only plastic staples, plastic bushings, plastic cable clamps because I think the metal pressing on the NM causes electromagnetic leakage between the hot and ground wire. We rip the sheathing with a very light pass of the knife, especially on 14-3 and 12-3. We never "slice a sausage" when ripping. We never install multi-wire circuits because it is a potential source of additional problems and the wire costs us more than double the cost of 12-2.
We rarely see AFCI tripping from wiring, but we do see tripping from light fixtures and appliances: vacuums, aquariums, radios, usually of foreign manufacture.
 
ELA

ELA

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrical Test Engineer
Assuming Arc fault breakers ( & GFCIs) are here to stay I would say it is time for any electrician that regularly installs them to invest in an "Leakage Current meter"! There is way to much speculation done to troubleshoot these issues vs. test measurements.

It was stated in a post that a very large percentage of AFCI issues are due to the ground fault portion. A Leakage current detector measures and quantifies the amount of leakage to prove that leakage is the issue vs. a true arcing fault.

While the Intelli-Arc might be useful I would put my money initially on a leakage current meter ( that is a portion of what the INtelli-arc does). The leakage meter would also be invaluable in testing GFCI issues and a better all around test tool investment.

I have read way too many posts here over time regarding issues with AFCI and GFCI and always wonder why people do not invest in the appropriate equipment to deal with it.
- Understood that these leakage meters can be expensive and the investment has to be justified. The Fluke 360 is way too expensive for my tastes ( unless you deal with such issues daily).
Don't get me wrong, I do favor quality equipment, I just do not have that kind of cash for my occasional use.

There seem to be more leakage meters becoming available at a lower cost. I see a PCE-LCT advertized that looks more reasonable. I could not speak as to its quality. Would be interested to hear if anyone has used one.

I recently built my own leakage current tester using the detection coil from a Leviton GFCI. I works great for about $30 worth of parts. It has a limited range and accuracy but good enough for GFCI testing.
I found it very interesting to be able to measure leakage currents on various nuisance GFCI tripping -Christmas lights this past winter. Observed circuits with GFCI holding steady at 3.5ma. Others slowly ramping up ( when damp), from 4 to 6 ma and tripping after a few seconds.
Made it easy to identify what particular string/s were the worst offenders.

Being able to quantify leakage current is of major advantage in troubleshooting may issues.
 
dhalleron

dhalleron

Senior Member
Location
Louisville, KY
I only do this part time so I don't have a lot of experience with AFCI. I'll for sure check for continuity first between neutral and ground at the panel if I ever have one tripping on me.

Just last weekend I was installing a light fixture with the switch turned off. I guess the neutral and ground touched when I noticed the light in the hallway go out. I didn't think much about it until I was ready to turn the light on and found I tripped the Homeline AFCI breaker.
 
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BAHTAH

Senior Member
Location
United States
Resi Arc Fault Circuuit

Resi Arc Fault Circuuit

I would think if you are having the GCC making contact with the bare ground wire when pushing a device into the box some type of alarm at the panel would help. Maybe installing a battery powered buzzer between the GCC and ground at the panel on the circuit you are working on would provide an alarm when you push the device into the box. Just a though as maybe a way of not having to trouble shoot the entire circuit after it is completed.
 
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