Identify the phase of MC inside a light fixture?

[Prox]

So this has come up on a job we have. The junction box at each light fixture is identified with panel, phase and circuit number, the wiring is the proper phasing (brown-orange-yellow-grey), but we used either 12-2 (black-white) or 12-3(black-red-white) mc cable from the junction box to the light fixture. The electrical inspector wants the mc to be re-identified at the light fixture to phase and circuit, even though the junction box which feeds the light fixture is right above the fixture. The job is under 2011 code, and all I am seeing is 210.5(C), but looking for a solution besides opening up every light fixture in the building.

 

[jusme123]

take a look at 402.10 (#2) but you may have a problem with 402.3.

Article 410 also deals with 'Luminaries '

 

[Smart $]

So this has come up on a job we have. The junction box at each light fixture is identified with panel, phase and circuit number, the wiring is the proper phasing (brown-orange-yellow-grey), but we used either 12-2 (black-white) or 12-3(black-red-white) mc cable from the junction box to the light fixture. The electrical inspector wants the mc to be re-identified at the light fixture to phase and circuit, even though the junction box which feeds the light fixture is right above the fixture. The job is under 2011 code, and all I am seeing is 210.5(C), but looking for a solution besides opening up every light fixture in the building.

If there is more than one nominal voltage system , there is no easy solution to your situation...

(C) Identification of Ungrounded Conductors. Ungrounded
conductors shall be identified in accordance with
210.5(C)(1), (2), and (3).

(1) Application. Where the premises wiring system has
branch circuits supplied from more than one nominal voltage
system, each ungrounded conductor of a branch circuit
shall be identified by phase or line and system at all termination,
connection, and splice points.

(2) Means of Identification. The means of identification
shall be permitted to be by separate color coding, marking
tape, tagging, or other approved means.

(3) Posting of Identification Means. The method utilized
for conductors originating within each branch-circuit panelboard
or similar branch-circuit distribution equipment
shall be documented in a manner that is readily available or
shall be permanently posted at each branch-circuit panelboard
or similar branch-circuit distribution equipment.

 

[John120/240]

The electrical inspector wants the mc to be re-identified at the light fixture to phase and circuit, .

Can the inspector cite a code article where this is required ? Any maintenance done on this system would require you to shut off the three pole breaker that feeds these lights. With the breaker off there would be no hazzard, so I say the inspector is all wrong.

 

[mwm1752]

He might be refering to:

110.15 High-Leg Marking.
On a 4-wire, delta-connected system where the midpoint of one phase winding is grounded, only the conductor or busbar having the higher phase voltage to ground shall be durably and permanently marked by an outer finish that is orange in color or by other effective means. Such identification shall be placed at each point on the system where a connection is made if the grounded conductor is also present.
By what you have written I would assume this is a 277/480v system. Seems like you are leaving out pertainent info.

 

[jusme123]

...John120/240, isn't this one of the reasons why the disconnects are now required in fluorescent fixtures 410.130(G)(1)? The OP stated nothing about a three pole breaker feeding the lights :?

 

[jusme123]

He might be refering to:

110.15 High-Leg Marking.
On a 4-wire, delta-connected system where the midpoint of one phase winding is grounded, only the conductor or busbar having the higher phase voltage to ground shall be durably and permanently marked by an outer finish that is orange in color or by other effective means. Such identification shall be placed at each point on the system where a connection is made if the grounded conductor is also present.
By what you have written I would assume this is a 277/480v system. Seems like you are leaving out pertainent info.

No, it has to do with 210.5, basically identifying normal branch ckts.

 

[Prox]

Any omission was due to getting the question out and not intentional. The lighting is 480/277v, and we are sharing neutrals on multi-pole breakers. The building also has 208/120, so we are under the constraints of 210.5(c).

 

[mwm1752]

Must identify grounded conductor to be consistant with the voltage system used. 277/480 would be grey as your panel is wired. 120/208 most likely white

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Must identify grounded conductor to be consistant with the voltage system used. 277/480 would be grey as your panel is wired. 120/208 most likely white

There is no code requirement to identify the grounded conductor by system, unless you have the grounded condutor from both systems in a common enclosure or raceway.

 

[cowboyjwc]

As smart$ posted, once you have identified the colors for you system, then you must carry those colors all the way through to the last termination point. Since he stated that brown/orange/yellow/gray was for 277/480 then that needs to be run all the way to the fixture. Other wise if you see the signage that says that black/red/blue are for 120/208 and you open the fixture and that's what you see.....

I know, I know, that's what meters are for.

 

[ActionDave]

As long as you don't have both voltages in the same pipe it is a ticky tack violation IMO.

 

[iwire]

As long as you don't have both voltages in the same pipe it is a ticky tack violation IMO.

Well that should take care of the OPs problems.

 

[mwm1752]

Ticky Tacky or not in this sue happy world all you would need is someone to get hurt & go after the AJH. At least he is inspecting & looking at the work (some don't). There are wiring methods out there the EC could have chosen not to be in this predictament IMO.

 

[GoldDigger]

There are wiring methods out there the EC could have chosen not to be in this predictament IMO.

Including just marking the conductors in the first place....

 

[cowboyjwc]

As long as you don't have both voltages in the same pipe it is a ticky tack violation IMO.

I get paid to find ticky tack stuff. Don't see to many guys mess up the big stuff, but I bet I can find a missing KO on almost every commercial job, even the ones where they swear they walked it three times.

 

[jumper]

I get paid to find ticky tack stuff. Don't see to many guys mess up the big stuff, but I bet I can find a missing KO on almost every commercial job, even the ones where they swear they walked it three times.

The plumbers did it, I swear....................

 

[kwired]

I get paid to find ticky tack stuff. Don't see to many guys mess up the big stuff, but I bet I can find a missing KO on almost every commercial job, even the ones where they swear they walked it three times.

So after your primary inspection is up you will spend an extra 1/2 day if needed just to try to find an open KO with no seal, cable, raceway?

And if after 1/2 day you are unsuccessful you quick punch one out when nobody is looking........AA..HAAA, I told you I could find one

 

[cowboyjwc]

So after your primary inspection is up you will spend an extra 1/2 day if needed just to try to find an open KO with no seal, cable, raceway?

And if after 1/2 day you are unsuccessful you quick punch one out when nobody is looking........AA..HAAA, I told you I could find one

Trust me doesn't take me a half day, I've even become a legend in my own office.

Putting a new ceiling and lights in a health club. Everything above the ceiling is a mess. The contractor knows me and on the day of rough, him and his guys are standing there in the middle of the room so I walk over and ask how they did. The guy tells me that he knows I'll find that one KO seal so he sent his guys out with three boxes of KO seals and checked every single box in the whole place. I look up and say, well then you would have thought that they would be sure and put one in the box that we're standing under.:lol: The look on his face was priceless.

As for knocking one out, I have a story about that too, but I don't feel like typing that much right now.:happyno:

 

[kwired]

Trust me doesn't take me a half day, I've even become a legend in my own office.

Putting a new ceiling and lights in a health club. Everything above the ceiling is a mess. The contractor knows me and on the day of rough, him and his guys are standing there in the middle of the room so I walk over and ask how they did. The guy tells me that he knows I'll find that one KO seal so he sent his guys out with three boxes of KO seals and checked every single box in the whole place. I look up and say, well then you would have thought that they would be sure and put one in the box that we're standing under.:lol: The look on his face was priceless.

As for knocking one out, I have a story about that too, but I don't feel like typing that much right now.:happyno:

Maybe they are good actors and knew it was there, hoping to get that out of the way so maybe you won't find any others. If you keep the inspector occupied with enough simple things maybe he will miss something big or at least more complex.