Does article 314.29 mean I can't cover junction boxes with insulation?

[Johnny123]

314.29 says that a junction box has to be "accessible without removing any part of the building", does that include insulation? if I know the builders are going to fill an attic to a certain level with insulation, should I install any required junctions boxes above that level?

 

[north star]

( . . . . )

johnny123,

1st, ...Welcome to The Mike Holt Forum!

2nd, ...no, you do not have to expose the junctions boxes!
See the definition of accessible ( as applied to wiring methods )
in Article 100 - Definitions, `08 NEC.

( . . . . )

 

[Johnny123]

So insulation is not considered "finish"?

 

[kwired]

So insulation is not considered "finish"?

To some - maybe, but to most it is easily moved and put back into place.

I prefer to place junction boxes above insulation just to help make it easier to find them. I have come up with methods to identify where buried boxes are located a few times before.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I agree that the insulation is not an issue however, IMO that is a bad place to install a jb as it makes it difficult to find. I have seen jb's under 10 inches of blown in insulation--- yuk

 

[north star]

< = = >

johnny123,

I did not find a definition in the IRC, however, ...in lieu of that,
I turned to the IBC.......See Section 805.2 - Definitions [ `06
IBC ] - INTERIOR WALL AND CEILING FINISH: "The
exposed interior surfaces of buildings, including but not
limited to: fixed or movable walls and partitions; toilet
room privacy partitions; columns; ceilings; and interior
wainscoting, paneling or other finish applied structurally or
for decoration, acoustical correction, surface insulation,
structural fire resistance or similar purposes, but not
including trim."

IMO, ...loose fill; or even roll type, thermal insulation is
not a finish material!.......If it were sprayed on to the
framing elements, then yes.

< = = >

 

[don_resqcapt19]

So the insulation is not a part of the building????

 

[iwire]

So the insulation is not a part of the building????

It is not part of the buildings finish IMO.

 

[GoldDigger]

It is not part of the buildings finish IMO.

I agree not part of the building finish. But the code section said "any part of the building" not "any part of the building finish". How are we to interpret that? Clearly it does not apply to furniture, etc., and insulation inside a wall is not an issue because you would have to remove the finish to get at it and the j-box anyway. Batt insulation laid in a continuous layer over the j-box sounds bad too, but loose fill? Maybe.

 

[iwire]

I agree not part of the building finish. But the code section said "any part of the building" not "any part of the building finish". How are we to interpret that? Clearly it does not apply to furniture, etc., and insulation inside a wall is not an issue because you would have to remove the finish to get at it and the j-box anyway. Batt insulation laid in a continuous layer over the j-box sounds bad too, but loose fill? Maybe.

Consider

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of
being removed or exposed without damaging the building
structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure
or finish of the building.

314.29 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, and Handhole Enclosures
to Be Accessible. Boxes, conduit bodies, and handhole
enclosures shall be installed so that the wiring contained
in them can be rendered accessible without removing
any part of the building or, in underground circuits, without
excavating sidewalks, paving, earth, or other substance that
is to be used to establish the finished grade.
Exception: Listed boxes and handhole enclosures shall be
permitted where covered by gravel, light aggregate, or noncohesive
granulated soil if their location is effectively identified
and accessible for excavation.

 

[GoldDigger]

Consider

Got it. You do have to be able to actually access it without removing any part of the building, it just has to be accessible.
You must not have to remove any part of the building to get down to where there is no finish is in the way.
Convoluted, but makes sense.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

It is my opinion that the wording in 314 supersedes that of the definition of accessible. The insulation is part of the building and must be removed to access the box. That gets a red tag from me.
I see it much like the condition in the exception to 314.29 for underground boxes, but without the exception to permit the box to be covered with insulation.

 

[jap]

I consider something "Part of the building" only if it it fastened to it somehow.

I dont consider blown in insulation or rolled in insulation that's not stapled down part of a builiding since its
not attached, and can easily be moved out of the way,no more than I would consider my Christmas Stuff
I have stored in my attic as part of the building.

(Do you not get to keep those if you sell your house?)

I would however question accessiblity if rolled in insulation was installed over a jbox and stapled down.

but that's just me.

 

[iwire]

It is my opinion that the wording in 314 supersedes that of the definition of accessible. The insulation is part of the building and must be removed to access the box. That gets a red tag from me.

If you say insulation is 'part of a building' I have to conclude so is a suspended ceiling tile or an access panel.

 

[renosteinke]

I have no issue with boxes buried under something like blown-in insulation. I might have a problem if the insulation is sprayed foam- and definitely object to placing boxes under rigid foam panels.

"Finish" can be a tricky matter. I believe the code means something like a sheet of drywall, and not simply a coat of paint!

 

[Ponchik]

It is OK to install Jboxes in the attic that will be covered with insulation. but it is a really bad practice and not a good design.

In the past when I had to remove parts of K&T wiring and install J boxes, right by the jboxes I installed a 36" high 1x2 with the tip painted bright orange. So, if the attic gets insulated they (next electrician) will see the orange tip and know where the jboxes are under the insulation.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

If you say insulation is 'part of a building' I have to conclude so is a suspended ceiling tile or an access panel.

If those items are not part of the building, what are they?

 

[kwired]

If you say insulation is 'part of a building' I have to conclude so is a suspended ceiling tile or an access panel.

I also agree, and was going to mention something similar...then came:

If those items are not part of the building, what are they?

They are movable just like loose fill insulation is, to be able to access something behind them, and can be easily put back into place when finished with the task.

 

[Gregg Harris]

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building.

If you remove the insulation, a ceiling tile or access panel you are "exsposing" it without damage to the structure "this would be the framing" or the finish which could be a number of things such as sheet rock panelling, ceramic tile etc.

314.29 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, and Handhole Enclosures to Be Accessible. Boxes, conduit bodies, and hand-hole enclosures shall be installed so that the wiring contained in them can be rendered accessible without removing any part of the building or, in underground circuits, without excavating sidewalks, paving, earth, or other substance that is to be used to establish the finished grade.
Exception: Listed boxes and hand-whole enclosures shall be permitted where covered by gravel, light aggregate, or non-cohesive granulated soil if their location is effectively identified and accessible, for excavation.

This exception would equate to the same action as removing the insulation.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I also agree, and was going to mention something similar...then came:



They are movable just like loose fill insulation is, to be able to access something behind them, and can be easily put back into place when finished with the task.

There is nothing in that code sectio that says anything about the parts of the building being movable or not.