ground on neutral

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Gaffen99

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new jersey
Other than Code violation, can someone tell me the unwanted consequences of using ground for a neutral in a lighting circuit or any other circuit for that matter. The wire is romex, so the ground is uninsulated.
Thanks
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Gaffen99 said:
Other than Code violation, can someone tell me the unwanted consequences of using ground for a neutral in a lighting circuit or any other circuit for that matter. The wire is romex, so the ground is uninsulated.
Thanks
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If the equipment grounding conductor is used as a neutral that all metal parts between the beginning and end of the circuit will be carrying current
 
cowboyjwc

cowboyjwc

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Gaffen99 said:
Could this then electrify the grounding points everywhere? Like in the yoke of devices?
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Yes, which is what Dennis was saying.

I thought I better edit this a little, the yokes would only be energized if the ground was still attached to the ground screw, but if it were a metal box then yes as well as the plate screws.
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Or worse if the grounding path back to source were to ever open, everything connected to this ground will be at 120 volt potential and could get someone killed, Don't do it, and make sure those in charge of this guy know what he is doing and saying, one death from someone like this should never be allowed to happen.

The other danger even if the ground path doesn't open is, if there is a fault between the hot and neutral this fault current can be very high, the voltage drop of the grounding path can cause a high enough voltage to be present on the grounding paths that some one could be hurt or killed, so again never use an EGC for a current carrying conductor NEVER, and it is also very against code.
 
ActionDave

ActionDave

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hurk27 said:
Or worse if the grounding path back to source were to ever open, everything connected to this ground will be at 120 volt potential and could get someone killed, Don't do it, and make sure those in charge of this guy know what he is doing and saying, one death from someone like this should never be allowed to happen.

The other danger even if the ground path doesn't open is, if there is a fault between the hot and neutral this fault current can be very high, the voltage drop of the grounding path can cause a high enough voltage to be present on the grounding paths that some one could be hurt or killed, so again never use an EGC for a current carrying conductor NEVER, and it is also very against code.
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Good answer.:thumbsup:
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Something else that has not been mentioned yet - voltage drop.

Put current in any conductor, and you get some voltage drop, the conductor doesn't care if it is a grounded conductor or not. Now put this voltage drop across equipment grounding conductors and you have voltage between any equipment bonded to the equipment grounding conductor and earth or anything at earth potential.

Just 2 or 3 volts can be lethal if conditions are right, like around swimming pools. There have been many electrocutions from this type of thing around boatyards, marinas, etc.
 
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ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
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Austin, TX, USA
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Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
kwired said:
Something else that has not been mentioned yet - voltage drop.

Put current in any conductor, and you get some voltage drop, the conductor doesn't care if it is a grounded conductor or not. Now put this voltage drop across equipment grounding conductors and you have voltage between any equipment bonded to the equipment grounding conductor and earth or anything at earth potential.

Just 2 or 3 volts can be lethal if conditions are right, like around swimming pools. There have been many electrocutions from this type of thing around boatyards, marinas, etc.
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Actually it was brought up in post #8.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Gaffen99 said:
I wish it was, but sadly, not. The next question is, what do I do with this? Do I notify the owner, or if it was him, which I would hope not, do I report it to the board? I think this is gross dereliction.
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Was his installation required to be permitted and inspected? Is his installing activities legal - as in are licensing rules being violated?

The guy may not understand what is wrong here, but that doesn't necessarily make it criminal intent. But then again, if someone is ever seriously injured or killed because of his installation, who knows what what he may be accused of.

I would hope just having someone give him a proper explanation and/or demonstration of the potential harm that could be done here can convince him he is doing something wrong.
 
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