Does article 314.29 mean I can't cover junction boxes with insulation?

[ActionDave]

314.29 says you can't move part of the building to access the box. The insulation is part of the building. There is nothing in 300.23 that modifies this so 314.29 controls.

Can you have a lid over the scuttle hatch into the attic and still be compliant?

 

[jap]

Before access panels below a jbox seemed to be an issue but it seems that point has been relaxed a
little now.

 

[jap]

I think now we are at the blown in insulation is part of the building and cannot be move out of the way
to meet code but we can remove access panels and layin ceiling tiles and be ok.

 

[jap]

Can you have a lid over the scuttle hatch into the attic and still be compliant?

From what I'm understanding,not if you consider the insulation as part of the building and it's covering the
access to your junction boxes.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Can you have a lid over the scuttle hatch into the attic and still be compliant?

If you just open the hatch, you are not removing part of the building and that would meet the wording of 314.29. If you have to remove the hatch cover, remove the ceiling tile or remove the insulation to gain access to the box, you have a violation of the wording of 314.29.

Is that really the intent of the code section?? Probably no, but it is, in my opinion, what the words say.

 

[jap]

If you just open the hatch, you are not removing part of the building and that would meet the wording of 314.29. If you have to remove the hatch cover, remove the ceiling tile or remove the insulation to gain access to the box, you have a violation of the wording of 314.29.

Is that really the intent of the code section?? Probably no, but it is, in my opinion, what the words say.

So if we just lift up one side of the ceiling tile or pull up one end of the rolled up insulation, as long as the
other end stays in contact with the building we should be good to go with no violations that have been
pointed out in all of the previous posts.

 

[kwired]

It is common for the attic access hatch cover to have insulation on top of it here. It is usually thick rigid foam or batt insulation and not loose fill, otherwise loose fill falls all over the place when removing the hatch cover. How do you gain access to attic (and any junction boxes in the attic) without moving that insulation?

 

[jap]

At some point you have to draw the line between gaining access to the attic and gaining access to
junction boxes.

 

[kwired]

At some point you have to draw the line between gaining access to the attic and gaining access to
junction boxes.

Sometimes you need to gain access to the front door before either of the others is even much of a possiblilty:happyyes:

 

[jap]

Dont even bring it up Kwired. I hope no insulation boards blow up against the door of my truck when
I pull onto the jobsite and cant get to my codebook to make an educated decision on what to do next.

 

[busman]

Dont even bring it up Kwired. I hope no insulation boards blow up against the door of my truck when
I pull onto the jobsite and cant get to my codebook to make an educated decision on what to do next.

I keep my codebook next to the seat for just such an emergency.

Mark

 

[busman]

If you just open the hatch, you are not removing part of the building and that would meet the wording of 314.29. If you have to remove the hatch cover, remove the ceiling tile or remove the insulation to gain access to the box, you have a violation of the wording of 314.29.

Is that really the intent of the code section?? Probably no, but it is, in my opinion, what the words say.

I hate to say you are taking this a bit too literally, but is an access panel that is designed to allow access part of a building? I'd say it's more part of a building than insulation or ceiling tiles. I need a screwdriver to pry the panel out of an access panel. Are they not allowed either?

I agree that you are reading the words correctly, but what's in question is the definition of "building".

Mark

 

[ggunn]

I hate to say you are taking this a bit too literally, but is an access panel that is designed to allow access part of a building? I'd say it's more part of a building than insulation or ceiling tiles. I need a screwdriver to pry the panel out of an access panel. Are they not allowed either?

I agree that you are reading the words correctly, but what's in question is the definition of "building".

Mark

What is the meaning of "is"?

 

[Gregg Harris]

The verbiage for this code section has remaind virtually unchanged for over 80 years, and I would consider that to be an indication that it has never been in contension as to what the intent is. Based on the verbiage of Accessable (as applied to wiring methods) I do not believe there to be any question as to its intent in regaurds to gaining the accessability to the wiring inside the boxes, conduit bodies, and handhole enclosures for future needs.

 

[north star]

~ = ~

I'm wondering if **Johnny123** has continued to read all of
the input on this topic, and as importantly, ...did he get an
answer to his OP, along with a code section to support his
install.

As an aside, ...don't know how much thermal insulation would
[ typically ] be installed on some junction boxes, but would
a thick layer; saaaaaay `tween 8"-12", installed over a
covered junction box affect the temperture ratings of the
conductors?

~ = ~

 

[jap]

The verbiage for this code section has remaind virtually unchanged for over 80 years, and I would consider that to be an indication that it has never been in contension as to what the intent is. Based on the verbiage of Accessable (as applied to wiring methods) I do not believe there to be any question as to its intent in regaurds to gaining the accessability to the wiring inside the boxes, conduit bodies, and handhole enclosures for future needs.

So what do you feel the intent is?

 

[tom baker]

Our Washington electrical rules do not allow us to cover a box in the attic with insulation.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The verbiage for this code section has remaind virtually unchanged for over 80 years, and I would consider that to be an indication that it has never been in contension as to what the intent is. Based on the verbiage of Accessable (as applied to wiring methods) I do not believe there to be any question as to its intent in regaurds to gaining the accessability to the wiring inside the boxes, conduit bodies, and handhole enclosures for future needs.

As far as removable panels, I would agree that you have the intent correct.

I don't agree that the intent is to permit the junction box to be covered by insulation.

 

[Gregg Harris]

So what do you feel the intent is?

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods).


Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building.

If the cover of the box is covered by insulation it can be exposed by moving the insulation and then putting it back without damage to the building structure or finish, and it would not be permanently closed in by the ceiling tile, access panel or between framing members that would prevent access.

Now with all that being said, attic spaces that are being encapsulated with sprayed thermal barriers does need to be addressed.

And as Roger noted there is an amendment to 314.29 in Washington that disallows insulation over boxes etc. It is the only one I am aware of.

 

[jap]

That's exactly the way I see it also.