Fire Alarm & Elevator

[George Stolz]

I'm trying to remember all aspects of a typical elevator - fire alarm interaction. What am I forgetting?

• Primary Recall Relay
• Alternate Recall Relay
• Elevator Shunt Trip Relay
• Elevator Powerloss Monitor
• Heat in Pit/Top of Shaft
• Smoke in Pit/Top of Shaft
• Heat in Control/Machinery Rm
• Smoke in Control/Machinery Rm

It seems to me that there is sometimes a relay in addition to primary and alternate recalls for Schindler elevators, and I'm not remembering what the heck it does.

 

[George Stolz]

Just remembered - fire hat.

 

[copper chopper]

how about a sump pump in the pit, and remember all outlets in the pit and the elevator machine rooms have to be gfci unless its for a specific piece of equipment and its a single outlet. such-as the sump pump. also elevator codes differ from state to state and change a-lot so check with them. such-as in wisconsin you cannot run any raceways in the pit behind the ladder. thats not in the nec. but they will fail there elevator inspection untill you fix it. Also if the shaft has no sprinkler head, then it needs a heat and a smoke at the top of the shaft.this recently changed in the elevator codes. the elevator guys might know?

 

[George Stolz]

Thanks, I'll include those in my notes.

Here's the graphic I'm working on for discussion:

 

[Ragin Cajun]

SMOKE IN EACH ELEVATOR LANDING

 

[mike7330]

Heat detector within 24 inches of each sprinkler head for shunt trip in machine room and shaft(s)

 

[steve66]

What am I forgetting?

I would add monitoring and supervision of the shunt trip voltage.

Also, how do you make sure the elevator is parked at a landing before shunt tripping the power?

I've started using the Cutler Hammer elevator control disconnects. They have the shunt trip monitoring, a test switch (key switch), a contact input back from the elevator to make sure the elevator is parked, etc.

Steve

 

[Strathead]

I'm trying to remember all aspects of a typical elevator - fire alarm interaction. What am I forgetting?

• Primary Recall Relay
• Alternate Recall Relay
• Elevator Shunt Trip Relay
• Elevator Powerloss Monitor
• Heat in Pit/Top of Shaft
• Smoke in Pit/Top of Shaft
• Heat in Control/Machinery Rm
• Smoke in Control/Machinery Rm

It seems to me that there is sometimes a relay in addition to primary and alternate recalls for Schindler elevators, and I'm not remembering what the heck it does.

I am having a brain f$%t here, so I can't remember the exact terminology. A Fireman's jack, or phone jack. I don't even know when it becomes required, but high rises typically have a 1/4" jack at each lobby. This is part of the fire alarm system, and is monitored, because I had to chase down a ground fault once in Oakland.

 

[iwire]

I am having a brain f$%t here, so I can't remember the exact terminology. A Fireman's jack, or phone jack. I don't even know when it becomes required, but high rises typically have a 1/4" jack at each lobby. This is part of the fire alarm system, and is monitored, because I had to chase down a ground fault once in Oakland.

I have always called them 'Fire Phones' but like you I do not recall when they are required.

 

[George Stolz]

You guys aren't talking about phones at "Areas of Refuge" for ADA, are you?

 

[iwire]

You guys aren't talking about phones at "Areas of Refuge" for ADA, are you?

I don't think so, they often look like this

and they will be at each elevator lobby of taller buildings, also in the fire stairways on each level.

 

[Strathead]

You guys aren't talking about phones at "Areas of Refuge" for ADA, are you?

No. I am referring strictly to a 1/4" phone jack located on the up/down plate in each elevator lobby (when at all) that a Fireman can plug in to and communicate between floors. The particular one I worked on, I don't think was monitored, but it derived at the Simplex Fire Alarm panel at building 505 in the Oakland City Center. There was an intermittent ground fault. I ended up resoldering every connection on every floor, since it blew up $4,000 cards every time it shorted to ground. It was a long time ago so that is all I remember.

 

[Strathead]

Thank you iWire. Exactly, although as I described the one I was recalling was physically mounted to the elevator call plate. I think they are monitored, I saw a picture on Google that showed 4 wires pigtailed out the back.

 

[GoldDigger]

Thank you iWire. Exactly, although as I described the one I was recalling was physically mounted to the elevator call plate. I think they are monitored, I saw a picture on Google that showed 4 wires pigtailed out the back.

There are a variety of ways of connecting the type of jack shown, but at a minimum there will be a two wire telephone loop that is compatible with a classic earphone/speaker and carbon microphone or electronic equivalent handset. The operating DC voltage is supplied at the main panel, and with an end-of-loop resistor across the two lines the whole system can be supervised. There may be a third terminal for a shield on the cable. Other jack models may incorporate remotely addressable supervision modules, etc. which use use additional wires. This module notifies the central station when a firefighter's phone is plugged into a particular jack.
There may also be a push-to-talk button in the handset or in the jack panel to minimize noise on the line when not talking.
The jack itself is a two-conductor jack, often with a signaling contact that closes or opens when a plug is inserted.

In some configurations the phone handset may also be automatically connected to the annunciator system.

 

[69gp]

I think it all depends on where you are located. Here in MA you need the following.

smoke in the machine room
smoke in every elevator lobby.
Smokes set up for primary and alternate landings controlled through control modules.
Damper at the top of the shaft controlled by a relay to open on alarm and also via a remote reverse acting thermostat located in the machine room.
phone line run to the elevator machine. This is for emergency call from within the cab.
pit light with switch located near the ladder to enter the pit.
GFI receptacle located in the pit and the machine room
A switch or disconnect that controls the lights within the cab. Must be able to be locked. (located in the Machine room)
The main disconnect handle for the machine must be located within 2 feet of the door strike side.
If the elevator has a battery (aka BORIS) for lowering the elevator installed then the disconnect that shuts the power off to the machine must have contacts to kill the power.
If there is a generator that runs the elevator on a power failure then you need to run 2 wires from the ATS to the machine so that the machine knows what power source it is running off of.


Steve B