Life Safety?

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CIECO

Senior Member
I have a job that I had looked at on Friday and been going over it in my head since, and have not come up with an idea yet so I want to get some opinions.
I looked at a organization?s retirement home, that was just renovated and for the most part was a first class job. Now this is a retirement home not a healthcare facility. There is a 20HP 480 volt fire pump taped before the main with a 200 amp CB. So far so good. Then there is a 150KW generator that with a 225 main CB that hits a distribution panel board then a 200 amp circuit that hits a transfer switch / transformer for some hall, stairwell, some other lighting and some unit heaters. All a very small load. A 100 amp circuit that hits some important HVAC loads sewage ejectors fire alarm and some other building essentials. And then finally a 60 amp circuit for the fire pump transfer switch which is the first problem I found. Now my understanding of why a fire pump is set up the way they are is so it will run until it destroys itself that?s why the locked rotor or 6 times the full load over currant protection. Now what the owners want me to do is connect a 40HP elevator to the generator with a transfer switch that will disconnect the load if the fire pump starts. Which in theory would work out but I am afraid to even touch this because I think you would need a 162 amps for the fire pump alone and even though the load on the other two circuits are light under a 100 amps there is nothing to limit it to that. Am I making too much of this or what.
 

texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
I have a job that I had looked at on Friday and been going over it in my head since, and have not come up with an idea yet so I want to get some opinions.
I looked at a organization?s retirement home, that was just renovated and for the most part was a first class job. Now this is a retirement home not a healthcare facility. There is a 20HP 480 volt fire pump taped before the main with a 200 amp CB. So far so good. Then there is a 150KW generator that with a 225 main CB that hits a distribution panel board then a 200 amp circuit that hits a transfer switch / transformer for some hall, stairwell, some other lighting and some unit heaters. All a very small load. A 100 amp circuit that hits some important HVAC loads sewage ejectors fire alarm and some other building essentials. And then finally a 60 amp circuit for the fire pump transfer switch which is the first problem I found. Now my understanding of why a fire pump is set up the way they are is so it will run until it destroys itself that?s why the locked rotor or 6 times the full load over currant protection. Now what the owners want me to do is connect a 40HP elevator to the generator with a transfer switch that will disconnect the load if the fire pump starts. Which in theory would work out but I am afraid to even touch this because I think you would need a 162 amps for the fire pump alone and even though the load on the other two circuits are light under a 100 amps there is nothing to limit it to that. Am I making too much of this or what.
NEC Art 695 does not require the standby source or breaker to carry locked rotor current as does the normal source. As far as the added load of the elevator, Art. 695 allows for load shedding if standby capacity is an issue.
 

steve66

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Engineer
Fire pumps normally have a dedicated transfer switch that is listed for fire service.

And normally, HVAC loads (and eleator loads) wouldn't be allowed on the same ATS as HVAC loads. There is an exception for small health care facilities, but you said this isn't health care.

I think thats why an engineer was sugggested - just to make sure there aren't other issues and requirements you may not be aware of.


Steve
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
I would ask for a stamped set of drawings from an EE.

Fire pumps normally have a dedicated transfer switch that is listed for fire service.

I think thats why an engineer was sugggested - just to make sure there aren't other issues and requirements you may not be aware of.


Steve

I agree with both Curtis and Steve

Roger
 

CIECO

Senior Member
It does have a listed fire pump controller and transfer switch, but what I did not realize is as 695.3(B)(1) state all you need is sufficient capacity to allow normal starting and running of the motor. Every generator I have installed (but not spec. or supplied) had been sized for the locked rotor currant. You learn something new every day. Thanks for the help.
 
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