AC and MC cable color code

[brother]

I will say this is first time I have seen an inspector fail someone for it but technically, according to manufacturers instructions he would be right. He cites 2008 NEC 110.3(B) and another one that I cannot recall at present.

There was a project where they used AC cable with colors brown, orange and gray to run a 120volt circuit. Apparently they were in a hurry and didnt have the black, red or blue type AC cable on hand.

We normally use the brown orange colors for 277/480 circuits and black red blue for the 120 volt circuits. I know in the NEC it would allow you to reidentify a grounded conductor to be used as an ungrounded conductor 2008 NEC 200.7(C). I can't recall exactly about re-identifying hot condutors to other hot conductors colors of diffrent voltage systems, ie 480/277 colors to 120/208 colors.

Basically making a brown, orange, re-identified to a black, red or whatever etc.. I personally have never done it, we always had the proper voltage colors.

Inspector says the manufacturers color coded the outside of the AC cable for easy identification and their instructions states in big bold letters not to re-identify the conductors. Page 50 to be exact http://www.afcweb.com/pdf/afcpocketguide.pdf

Whats your opinion?

 

[roger]

Inspector says the manufacturers color coded the outside of the AC cable for easy identification and their instructions states in big bold letters not to re-identify the conductors. Page 50 to be exact http://www.afcweb.com/pdf/afcpocketguide.pdf

Whats your opinion?

I would side with the inspector using 110.3(B).

IMO, this is just a way for AFC to sell more cable but it is what it is.

Roger

 

[iwire]

I would side with the inspector using 110.3(B).

IMO, this is just a way for AFC to sell more cable but it is what it is.

I agree with Roger on all his points.

 

[fmtjfw]

Remember the colors are custom, not NEC rule. If there is only one voltage in the building, you can use any or all colors for it. Different colors are only needed if there are two voltages (120/208 & 277/480 for instance).

 

[north star]

= ~ =

IMO, Article 110.3(A)(1), `08 NEC would also apply
to the inspector' justification and citing of code.

= ~ =

 

[Gregg Harris]

= ~ =

IMO, Article 110.3(A)(1), `08 NEC would also apply
to the inspector' justification and citing of code.

= ~ =

That would be a stretch. As fmtjfw stated, short of multiple voltages there is no reason for not allowing remarking. The statement by the manufacture is purely marketing strategy and has no technical value to support it.

 

[iwire]

The statement by the manufacture is purely marketing strategy and has no technical value to support it.

I agree with you.

Unfortunately ULs position is that all manufacturers instructions are in fact part of the listing and labeling.

 

[fmtjfw]

If you have a single voltage system in the building you can use Brown, Black, Red, Orange, Yellow, Blue, and Violet for any hot wire, you do not have to re-identify them. In the same way you can use white or gray for neutrals.

If you have multiple voltage systems in the building you need to identify the two (or more?) systems by voltage usually using insulation colors and post the scheme at panelboards.

 

[jusme123]

If you have a single voltage system in the building you can use Brown, Black, Red, Orange, Yellow, Blue, and Violet for any hot wire, you do not have to re-identify them. In the same way you can use white or gray for neutrals.

If you have multiple voltage systems in the building you need to identify the two (or more?) systems by voltage usually using insulation colors and post the scheme at panelboards.

.....

 

[jusme123]

If you have a single voltage system in the building you can use Brown, Black, Red, Orange, Yellow, Blue, and Violet for any hot wire, you do not have to re-identify them. In the same way you can use white or gray for neutrals.

If you have multiple voltage systems in the building you need to identify the two (or more?) systems by voltage usually using insulation colors and post the scheme at panelboards.

you still can't re-identify the conductors.

 

[GoldDigger]

you still can't re-identify the conductors.

Right, but you can make your single voltage color scheme L1 = Black or Orange, L2= ...... and post it somewhere.
It is questionable whether the manufacturer's designation of a particular cable as 480/277Y prohibits you from using it to carry either 208/120Y or 120/240 if that is the only voltage in the building.

 

[jusme123]

Right, but you can make your single voltage color scheme L1 = Black or Orange, L2= ...... and post it somewhere.
It is questionable whether the manufacturer's designation of a particular cable as 480/277Y prohibits you from using it to carry either 208/120Y or 120/240 if that is the only voltage in the building.

manufacture doesn't care what voltage you use it for (120/208 or 277/480) they don't want you changing the colors

 

[GoldDigger]

manufacture doesn't care what voltage you use it for (120/208 or 277/480) they don't want you changing the colors

I am just worried that the same inspector would say that even though all the insulation is rated 600v, you are not allowed to use what the manufacturer calls 120 volt cable for a higher voltage.
One of the cable types is listed as multi voltage with no identifying band on the jacket ("MC-Lite? Metal Clad Aluminum Cable Technical Specifications (120V & 480Y/277V, Plain Armor No Striping)"). But you then have to specify what color wires you get inside it.)

Anyway, this is either a great safety enhancement or a way to increase sales and inventory levels at their distributors.

 

[jumper]

Anyway, this is either a great safety enhancement or a way to increase sales and inventory levels at their distributors.

IMO, I would say that the instructions not to reidentify are silly and pure nonsense.

 

[infinity]

I would mention this to Southwire. In the past they're been pretty responsive to complaints about their products. They even relabeled their SIM-Pull wire when there was a complaint about it's labeling.

Look at post #36 from this old thread:

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=89608&highlight=Southwire

 

[Mgraw]

Is this a Southwire product?

 

[jumper]

I just sent an email query to AFC about this thread.

I will post results if they respond.

 

[jumper]

Well I either got a automated reply or this lady is lightning quick. This came back almost immediately.

I will be out of the office Monday April 8 through Wednesday April 10 with limited access to email.

I will get back to you upon my return Thursday April 11.

Thank you and have a great day!

Lindsay

This is the lady I emailed. http://www.afcweb.com/afc-marketing-services.html

This is my original email query.

In regards to the instructions not to re-identify conductors in your products, shown in this AFC link, http://www.afcweb.com/pdf/afcpocketguide.pdf, can you please tell me what is your companies reasoning.

This is currently being discussed in a thread on Mike Holt's NEC forum.

Here is a link to that discussion.

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=152653

 

[brother]

This should be interesting to see. I have only heard that it was to help easily identify the voltages as the outside of their cable is marked and color coded as well, also the Nec requires when one has multiple voltage systems to pick a color and stick with it.

I anxiously await their response because it has to a big deal to them because the put it in BIG BOLD letters on every page seem like. Lol

 

[kwired]

IMO, I would say that the instructions not to reidentify are silly and pure nonsense.

Do they have similar language on cables with say black, red, blue, white conductors installed, meaning you couldn't re identify those conductors either?

As long as NEC doesn't require a specific color scheme I see this as pure nonsense like Jumper said. I can see it being used as a marketing method to help sell more cable, but only to a certain extent. Maybe they sell less cable because some other mfgr doesn't have those same instructions.