Do you trust your smart meter's remote shut off feature?

[K8MHZ]

We got smart meters a few months ago. Prior to the installation, we were notified. I had some questions so I called customer service. I explained that I was an electrician and had some questions about the features of the meter and the information displayed.

One thing I was told was that they could shut the power off at my house (or anyone's with a smart meter) just by me calling them on the phone. That way, if I had a project to do that I should do with the power off, I wouldn't have to wait for a linesman to come and pull the meter. The same goes for when I am done. I just call them up and they turn the power on in an instant.

But.....I just get the creeps thinking about working downstream from a wireless remote control disconnect that I have no actual control over.

Call me chicken, but if I need the meter pulled to work on the main, it's getting pulled whether it's turned off or not. Here is the dig, though.....when you pull the meter, it stops talking to the POCO and they will send someone out.......that will probably not be happy when they see thier meter on the ground.

Have any of you trusted the POCOs internal meter disconnect? Or do you pull the meter for safety anyway? If so, does the POCO have a hissy fit?

 

[ptonsparky]

We got smart meters a few months ago. Prior to the installation, we were notified. I had some questions so I called customer service. I explained that I was an electrician and had some questions about the features of the meter and the information displayed.

One thing I was told was that they could shut the power off at my house (or anyone's with a smart meter) just by me calling them on the phone. That way, if I had a project to do that I should do with the power off, I wouldn't have to wait for a linesman to come and pull the meter. The same goes for when I am done. I just call them up and they turn the power on in an instant.

But.....I just get the creeps thinking about working downstream from a wireless remote control disconnect that I have no actual control over.

Call me chicken, but if I need the meter pulled to work on the main, it's getting pulled whether it's turned off or not. Here is the dig, though.....when you pull the meter, it stops talking to the POCO and they will send someone out.......that will probably not be happy when they see thier meter on the ground.

Have any of you trusted the POCOs internal meter disconnect? Or do you pull the meter for safety anyway? If so, does the POCO have a hissy fit?

I would trust it just as much as I would a "Start" button not being pushed in a room full of 1st graders.:happysad:

 

[bobbymari]

You want the short answer, NOOO. My guys were recently working on a 480v step down comming off of a ct cab. They called poco asking for a shut down which they did remotely. Guys called me with the okay to proceed, and informed me no lock ring on meter. My response, pull it now!!! I never put myself or my workers life in someone elses hands. When meters locked, bill for wait time and wait, I say. If poco doesn't like meter being pulled I wonder if how they'd feel about a cut service feed instead. But thats just me....

 

[Besoeker]

Have any of you trusted the POCOs internal meter disconnect? Or do you pull the meter for safety anyway? If so, does the POCO have a hissy fit?

I know we do a few things differently here.
I have yet to come across a residential installation that didn't have a main breaker upstream of the meter. Downstream circuits may have breakers or fuses in older installations.
Either way, you can electrically isolate any circuit or the whole jingbang locally. Without pulling the meter - not even sure what that entails.

On industrial sites, which is mostly what I deal with, there is almost always a formal procedure for electrical isolation that needs to be adhered to. Isolators get locked off and you take charge of the key.
If there are a number people working on a piece of plant then each will have a padlock on the isolator - there is a gadget, the name of which I can't recall, that facilitates this.

In short, I wouldn't want to work on anything where I don't have personal control of ensuring that it is not live.

 

[kwired]

How do you LOTO such a disconnect method and be assured that energy can not return unexpectedly?

 

[Besoeker]

How do you LOTO such a disconnect method and be assured that energy can not return unexpectedly?

If you mean smart meters, I don't know unless you have a local isolator.

 

[ptonsparky]

How do you LOTO such a disconnect method and be assured that energy can not return unexpectedly?

That is the $64,000 question and IIRC, the odds were not always in your favor.

 

[PetrosA]

I know we do a few things differently here...

I saw a lot of that in Poland, too. None of the meters there were snap-in style and most are mounted indoors, so a main was located outside ahead of the meter for fire departments to disconnect power. Here the fire departments use the meter to disconnect power to the building in many cases. I'm curious whether the remote shut-off on the smart meters is considered a sufficient disconnect means by fire departments?

 

[kwired]

If you mean smart meters, I don't know unless you have a local isolator.

OP is talking about a remote controlled (by POCO) switching method (within the smart meter) to disconnect power from the utility supply instead of POCO sending someone out to pull meter or cut service drop or something equivalent in nature. This is essentially an automatic or remote type of control and not a disconnecting means that can be depended on to not unexpectedly close the circuit again. Kind of like what was said before:I would trust it just as much as I would a "Start" button not being pushed in a room full of 1st graders.

All this device needs is one false, unintended, or accidental condition to occur causing the contacts to close, and you have an energized service again.

 

[Besoeker]

I saw a lot of that in Poland, too. None of the meters there were snap-in style and most are mounted indoors, so a main was located outside ahead of the meter for fire departments

My main switch is adjacent to the meter. Both indoors.

 

[Hv&Lv]

The remote disconnect feature is one that is an expensive option that some POCO's didn't buy. IMO it is a cheap disconnect. We didn't purchase that option. We can send someone to disconnect the occasional service cheaper.

However, with that being said the POCO's generally require the linemen to have a visual opening before working on a line.

They should not expect you to have anything less. I say pull the meter, set it back when you are done. If the linemen ride up, so be it. If he/she doesn't understand what you are doing, they should send a real lineman.

I have no problem supplying electricians and certain firemen with blanks to go in a meter base to make the base safe so they can work.

You think the POCO's job is to watch out for you? Take care of yourself first, live to tell why you pulled the meter.

 

[kwired]

The remote disconnect feature is one that is an expensive option that some POCO's didn't buy. IMO it is a cheap disconnect. We didn't purchase that option. We can send someone to disconnect the occasional service cheaper.

However, with that being said the POCO's generally require the linemen to have a visual opening before working on a line.

They should not expect you to have anything less. I say pull the meter, set it back when you are done. If the linemen ride up, so be it. If he/she doesn't understand what you are doing, they should send a real lineman.

I have no problem supplying electricians and certain firemen with blanks to go in a meter base to make the base safe so they can work.

You think the POCO's job is to watch out for you? Take care of yourself first, live to tell why you pulled the meter.

I agree.

When the disconnect feature is used it is most likely used for disconnection of service for non payment of the bill by the consumer, not as a safety disconnecting means for a worker. This would allow for disconnection to be done by a person sitting at their desk in the office instead of by a person that probably has more important things to do than disconnect someone's service, and possibly deal with disgruntled customer because their power is being disconnected, or because the customer has a dangerous dog or other hazard involved in approaching the meter in order to disconnect the service. I could see these meters having value in some areas where there are typically a high volume of non paying customers and maybe hazardous conditions involved with disconnecting power. Some of these guys would rather deal with live high voltages than with some of these types of customers anytime.

 

[iwire]

My main switch is adjacent to the meter. Both indoors.

There are many different power companies in the US each with their own rules. Few if any allow a customer owned and / or controlled disconnect switch ahead of a meter at typical homes with 120/240 or 120/208 volt services. In almost all cases the power company has to literally cut a wire or open the primary to a transformer but that will usually knock out many homes.

 

[mivey]

One thing I was told was that they could shut the power off at my house (or anyone's with a smart meter) just by me calling them on the phone. That way, if I had a project to do that I should do with the power off, I wouldn't have to wait for a linesman to come and pull the meter. The same goes for when I am done. I just call them up and they turn the power on in an instant.

Won't work for me. Unless I control the switch, I want a visable air gap under my control. If you can't disable remote operation you are not safe.

 

[electricguy61]

I know we do a few things differently here.
I have yet to come across a residential installation that didn't have a main breaker upstream of the meter. Downstream circuits may have breakers or fuses in older installations.
Either way, you can electrically isolate any circuit or the whole jingbang locally. Without pulling the meter - not even sure what that entails.

On industrial sites, which is mostly what I deal with, there is almost always a formal procedure for electrical isolation that needs to be adhered to. Isolators get locked off and you take charge of the key.
If there are a number people working on a piece of plant then each will have a padlock on the isolator - there is a gadget, the name of which I can't recall, that facilitates this.

In short, I wouldn't want to work on anything where I don't have personal control of ensuring that it is not live.

I was wondering where in the US you have a disconnect upstream of the meter, but now see you're in the UK.

In 34 years, I can't remember ever seeing a disconnect upstream of the meter on a residential job.

 

[Besoeker]

There are many different power companies in the US each with their own rules. Few if any allow a customer owned and / or controlled disconnect switch ahead of a meter at typical homes with 120/240 or 120/208 volt services.

I'm curious to know why that would be.

 

[iwire]

I'm curious to know why that would be.

Theft and tradition.

 

[Besoeker]

Theft and tradition.

Tradition I can understand.
The theft not so much.
You just as easily disconnect the live side of the breaker as the live side of the meter.
Here the live side has seals that you would need to break to steal.

 

[ptonsparky]

Seals are like locks. They only keep out most of the honest people.

 

[GoldDigger]

Won't work for me. Unless I control the switch, I want a visable air gap under my control. If you can't disable remote operation you are not safe.

+1
You do not want to trust hardware you cannot see, nor a remote operator period.