Emon Demon install

[GerryB]

Has anyone done one? A friend bought a rental prop with an in-law apt. The main panel in the crawl space has a 100amp breaker feeding the in law apt sub panel. Looks pretty easy except he wants the metering device upstairs somewhere where he can read it. The site doesn't show a picture of the single phase 100 amp install. The 3phase shows ct's around the mains and leads off the breakers.

 

[jumper]

Never installed one, but be careful-many areas disallow/prohibit private sub metering. If allowed, a small surcharge for billing may be allowed, but charging a profit margin is generally a big no no.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Has anyone done one? A friend bought a rental prop with an in-law apt. The main panel in the crawl space has a 100amp breaker feeding the in law apt sub panel. Looks pretty easy except he wants the metering device upstairs somewhere where he can read it. The site doesn't show a picture of the single phase 100 amp install. The 3phase shows ct's around the mains and leads off the breakers.

i have two of them to do next week.
sign companies almost always have them installed
for metering. single phase 20 amp 120volt units.
LED channel signs don't draw much anymore.

just called my wholesale house... a 100amp/3ph 208V
emon is about $550 with tax. they make remote monitoring
units that can tie to an IP over a LAN, or to client software
running anywhere....

i suspect it's expensive enough to discourage your customer
into walking out to the meter. you can probably find out here....

? Class 2100-Wireless Three Phase Meters

one thing i've found helpful, 'cause there usually isn't anyplace
near the panel to hang one of these in a high rise, as there are
already six of them festooning the wall around the panel, is
a LB and a LR, and float the emon between them. if you snug
everything up tight, it works well.

 

[GerryB]

i have two of them to do next week.
sign companies almost always have them installed
for metering. single phase 20 amp 120volt units.
LED channel signs don't draw much anymore.

just called my wholesale house... a 100amp/3ph 208V
emon is about $550 with tax. they make remote monitoring
units that can tie to an IP over a LAN, or to client software
running anywhere....

i suspect it's expensive enough to discourage your customer
into walking out to the meter. you can probably find out here....

? Class 2100-Wireless Three Phase Meters

one thing i've found helpful, 'cause there usually isn't anyplace
near the panel to hang one of these in a high rise, as there are
already six of them festooning the wall around the panel, is
a LB and a LR, and float the emon between them. if you snug
everything up tight, it works well.

Got a price of $360.00 for a 1000 series E10 3208. That's single phase for 100 amps. It's just for the owner to determine what part of the bill belongs to this in-law apartgment. He will not be selling electricity. Thanks for input

 

[jumper]

Got a price of $360.00 for a 1000 series E10 3208. That's single phase for 100 amps. It's just for the owner to determine what part of the bill belongs to this in-law apartgment. He will not be selling electricity. Thanks for input

Tell owner to note this also, a common violation of this section occurs in small rentals if not addressed properly:

210.25 Branch Circuits in Buildings with More Than
One Occupancy.

(A) Dwelling Unit Branch Circuits. Branch circuits in
each dwelling unit shall supply only loads within that dwelling
unit or loads associated only with that dwelling unit.

(B) Common Area Branch Circuits. Branch circuits installed
for the purpose of lighting, central alarm, signal, communications,
or other purposes for public or common areas of
a two-family dwelling, a multifamily dwelling, or a multioccupancy
building shall not be supplied from equipment that
supplies an individual dwelling unit or tenant space.

 

[GerryB]

Tell owner to note this also, a common violation of this section occurs in small rentals if not addressed properly:

210.25 Branch Circuits in Buildings with More Than
One Occupancy.

(A) Dwelling Unit Branch Circuits. Branch circuits in
each dwelling unit shall supply only loads within that dwelling
unit or loads associated only with that dwelling unit.

(B) Common Area Branch Circuits. Branch circuits installed
for the purpose of lighting, central alarm, signal, communications,
or other purposes for public or common areas of
a two-family dwelling, a multifamily dwelling, or a multioccupancy
building shall not be supplied from equipment that
supplies an individual dwelling unit or tenant space.

Thanks for the input. Actually have a job today, 2 family, basement lights (ie common area), are on the 2nd floor panel.

 

[DesignerMan]

I have to agree with Jumper, they shouldn't be used in a residential property. I did install one several years ago in a warehouse though. Owner split it into two sections and rented the one side out. Worked well in that application.

 

[Strathead]

Got a price of $360.00 for a 1000 series E10 3208. That's single phase for 100 amps. It's just for the owner to determine what part of the bill belongs to this in-law apartgment. He will not be selling electricity. Thanks for input

I want to point out that "to determine what part of the bill belongs to this in-law apartment." and then collecting that money from the tenant is in fact selling electricity. As pointed out, as long as there is no profit involved, that is generally OK, but just make sure they are aware anyway.

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

They are easy to install. Just be sure you wrap the monitored conductor(s) the correct amount of turns through the CT(s).

 

[iwire]

Got a price of $360.00 for a 1000 series E10 3208. That's single phase for 100 amps. It's just for the owner to determine what part of the bill belongs to this in-law apartgment. He will not be selling electricity. Thanks for input

Still your customer should check the legality of that. At the least make sure the Emon Demon you choose is a 'revenue grade' meter.

 

[GerryB]

Still your customer should check the legality of that. At the least make sure the Emon Demon you choose is a 'revenue grade' meter.

What is revenue grade? You know I did a complete 2nd floor addition in another town a HO built for his daughter to live in. (I'll get back to the topic in a minute here) So the town allows this addition complete with kitchen, bath, bedrooms etc., but tells you this isn't zoned for two family so you can't get another meter. This in law is the same, it's obvious it was a 2-car garage they added to, but it's the town, not the POCO who won't allow the meter. To the other poster who said he didn't think residential was a good idea, how come?

 

[satcom]

This link addresses a sub meter issue. http://articles.courant.com/2011-10...-20111019_1_submetering-electric-bill-tenants

 

[GoldDigger]

So the town allows this addition complete with kitchen, bath, bedrooms etc., but tells you this isn't zoned for two family so you can't get another meter. This in law is the same, it's obvious it was a 2-car garage they added to, but it's the town, not the POCO who won't allow the meter.

The principle seems clear. If the occupant really is an in-law or nanny or whatever, you would have no reason to bill them separately for power. If you are renting to somebody whom you need to charge for their electric use, then that tenant isn't really the type of occupant that the zoning permission for an in-law apartment was intended to cover. It is unfortunate that the town is reduced to trying to enforce by electrical connection limits what they really should have provided for in the zoning code, but sometimes things work that way.

 

[GerryB]

This link addresses a sub meter issue. http://articles.courant.com/2011-10...-20111019_1_submetering-electric-bill-tenants

That was an interesting article especially since I am in Ct. One line said a meter was required if an apartment has a kitchen, which again goes back to the town allowing an in law or addition with a kitchen but no meter.

 

[fmtjfw]

Or you can just buy one or more used "revenue grade" meters off EBay and plug it into a meter socket for way less than $300.
The only catch may be that it is not zeroed.