Preconstruction

[mstrlucky74]

Was curious as to what are some of the questions a PM should inquire about/ask the estimator when reviewing an awarded project/drawings. Thanks.

 

[SIRSPARKSALOT]

1. Definitive scope of work. Is the fire alarm included or are there just sleeves. Same with LV systems.
2. Installation methods. How was this portion of the job bid? Pipe and wire, cable, etc.
3. Was there any premium time included in the bid and for what purpose?
4. Schedule vs. hours vs. manpower to complete.
5. Commissioning procedures...are there any that need to be followed.
6. Job schedule, if available from the GC, to coordinate procurement and manpower.
7. Potential grey areas where the drawings left room for potential change orders.

I could go on, but there's a start...

 

[mstrlucky74]

1. Definitive scope of work. Is the fire alarm included or are there just sleeves. Same with LV systems.
2. Installation methods. How was this portion of the job bid? Pipe and wire, cable, etc.
3. Was there any premium time included in the bid and for what purpose?
4. Schedule vs. hours vs. manpower to complete.
5. Commissioning procedures...are there any that need to be followed.
6. Job schedule, if available from the GC, to coordinate procurement and manpower.
7. Potential grey areas where the drawings left room for potential change orders.

I could go on, but there's a start...

Thanks. I also thought of:

1. Any RFI's & responses?
2. Any Subcontractors working for electrical?
3. Owner furnished equipment?
4. MWBE/MBE requirements
5. Have any alternates been accepted?

 

[cowboyjwc]

Am I bidding off of an approved set of plans or a preplancheck set?

 

[mstrlucky74]

Am I bidding off of an approved set of plans or a preplancheck set?

:?:?

 

[John120/240]

Am I bidding off of an approved set of plans or a preplancheck set?

:?:?

mstrlucky Have the plans that your a bidding too been approved by the city AHJ or are these plans a preliminary set without the city's
approval. If the plans are approved you are all set. For example if just a preliminary set of plans the AHJ might require changes to the fire alarm system. In that case you may have to eat the changes required by the AHJ if you submitted your quote based on the
preliminary set of plans.

 

[mstrlucky74]

mstrlucky Have the plans that your a bidding too been approved by the city AHJ or are these plans a preliminary set without the city's
approval. If the plans are approved you are all set. For example if just a preliminary set of plans the AHJ might require changes to the fire alarm system. In that case you may have to eat the changes required by the AHJ if you submitted your quote based on the
preliminary set of plans.

Approved, thanks.

 

[cdslotz]

mstrlucky Have the plans that your a bidding too been approved by the city AHJ or are these plans a preliminary set without the city's
approval. If the plans are approved you are all set. For example if just a preliminary set of plans the AHJ might require changes to the fire alarm system. In that case you may have to eat the changes required by the AHJ if you submitted your quote based on the
preliminary set of plans.

Well, not necessarily. If he is having a preconstruction meeting, then you already have a contract, correct?
Every contract I have signed has the documents (each plan sheet/date, and spec sections/date) included in the contract verbiage. If they wrote me a contract prior to all documents or design completed, then tuff.

It's not a question of what a PM should ask the estimator in a pre-con meeting. Usually, once we hear we have won the job and the contract is on it's way, I give all bidding documents and my bid folder with all of the proposals, qualifications, exclusions, etc for him to pour over. When the contracts comes in, we then have a pre-con with the estimator, PM, superintendent, foreman that will be on that job.
We have a standardized checklist on Excel that we go through step by step with items that occur on every job. Then followup is assigned to each person in that meeting.
It is at this meeting where specific issues are flushed out and addressed that the PM caught in his review of the documents. Example: "I see you used MC cable on everything. The specs call for conduit only." (this is your oh sh!t moment)

 

[jumper]

"When do I get paid?"...........................

 

[cowboyjwc]

mstrlucky Have the plans that your a bidding too been approved by the city AHJ or are these plans a preliminary set without the city's
approval. If the plans are approved you are all set. For example if just a preliminary set of plans the AHJ might require changes to the fire alarm system. In that case you may have to eat the changes required by the AHJ if you submitted your quote based on the
preliminary set of plans.

:thumbsup:

 

[cowboyjwc]

"When do I get paid?"...........................

Oh yeah....good one.:happyyes:

 

[mstrlucky74]

Well, not necessarily. If he is having a preconstruction meeting, then you already have a contract, correct?
Every contract I have signed has the documents (each plan sheet/date, and spec sections/date) included in the contract verbiage. If they wrote me a contract prior to all documents or design completed, then tuff.

It's not a question of what a PM should ask the estimator in a pre-con meeting. Usually, once we hear we have won the job and the contract is on it's way, I give all bidding documents and my bid folder with all of the proposals, qualifications, exclusions, etc for him to pour over. When the contracts comes in, we then have a pre-con with the estimator, PM, superintendent, foreman that will be on that job.
We have a standardized checklist on Excel that we go through step by step with items that occur on every job. Then followup is assigned to each person in that meeting.
It is at this meeting where specific issues are flushed out and addressed that the PM caught in his review of the documents. Example: "I see you used MC cable on everything. The specs call for conduit only." (this is your oh sh!t moment)

lol...

 

[BJ Conner]

RTCF

RTCF

1. Read the Contract First.
2. Read the contract again.
3. Define the Scope.

1,2 & 3 are essential elements of the 6 Ps of good construction.
"If you don't know where your going you may wind up somewhere else."

 

[mstrlucky74]

1. Read the Contract First.
2. Read the contract again.
3. Define the Scope.

1,2 & 3 are essential elements of the 6 Ps of good construction.
"If you don't know where your going you may wind up somewhere else."

Makes sense.....what are the 6 P's?

 

[Strathead]

It's not a question of what a PM should ask the estimator in a pre-con meeting. Usually, once we hear we have won the job and the contract is on it's way, I give all bidding documents and my bid folder with all of the proposals, qualifications, exclusions, etc for him to pour over. When the contracts comes in, we then have a pre-con with the estimator, PM, superintendent, foreman that will be on that job.
We have a standardized checklist on Excel that we go through step by step with items that occur on every job. Then followup is assigned to each person in that meeting.
It is at this meeting where specific issues are flushed out and addressed that the PM caught in his review of the documents. Example: "I see you used MC cable on everything. The specs call for conduit only." (this is your oh sh!t moment)

This is close to where I stand. Even when I am the estimator and the PM on a job, I try to remove one hat and put the other on.

First, the estimator should be the one who ensures that the contract signed is committing to the information he bid on, and that it is compliant with his bid. As in, the dates/revision # of each drawing page, the date of the specs, any applicable addenda, any inclusions and exclusions provided during the bid as modified by any verbal agreements made at the "scope meeting etc.

Then the estimator should have to put together a package that includes:

1. The set of plans and specs designated by the contract
2. Any other applicable paperwork mentioned above, (addenda, RFI's), but only if they are acknowledged in the contract or they are implied by the contract.
3. A copy of the contract being committed to
4. access to or copies of the estimate.

I don't really feel that the above is opinion, as much as the only right thing to do because, the PM should then review everything. Do his own take off, or somehow otherwise get fully involved in building the job in his head. (I became an estimator because I learned all the skills merely running jobs) Then and only then the two should sit down and iron out questions. The "OH NO!" moments obviously need to be discussed together, and strategies developed. Otherwise, and this I feel strongly about, it doesn't matter what the estimator did, thought, or covered! What matters is what is on the plans specs and contract! Here is why.

I get really irritated when an owner or a GC makes a statement similar to, "You mean your estimator didn't include that in his bid." or "I'm sure your estimator included that in his bid." I get very stubborn and never try to address that question with a reasoned response, and I have heard it many times. I will always say, "That is not a valid question, if I tell you that my estimator forgot to include the feeder wire in his estimate, would you then say that it is OK we will pay for it because it was forgotten?"

The point is that the project manager needs to be looking at the job from the plans specs and contract, not the estimate when it comes to dealing with the owner. Regarding means and methods, it is great to have pow-wows with the estimator to jointly discuss ideas, or the help understand why something is "missing" from an estimate, but it shouldn't affect the dealings with the "other side" at all.