Not an NEC Issue but.......FYI

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Cavie

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
How many are aware of "Longshoreman's workmans comp insurance requirements??? It is a Federal Mandated Program. It's been on the books for some time here in Florida but most govenments have not required it. That has changed. It is now being inforced by local departments in SW Florida. The short version is..........Once you step over the seawall and onto any dock to do work over any navigable water, on any dock or any boat, you must have LS insurance. This includes private docks as well. Your normal workmans comp does not apply. Your workmans comp exemption forms also do not apply. There is no exemption. I'm told at this time min premiums start at $13,000.00 per year. A printed flyer form Charlotte Couty Fl Building Department states $10,000.00 fine and 1 year in jail. Anybody eles run into this.
 

Cavie

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
I've been researching this for about 2 months and had a 1 hour conversation with the local building official over the phone on this matter. He is very much against it but his hands are tied. This will cause much unlicensed and unpermitted activity. My company will not be working on any dock in the future. We do alot of dock work being as we work on a barrier island but we don't fell we do enough to cover $13,000.00 before making a profit from it. I'm hoping that once it kicks in in the area, the price will come down do to compitition. I do I tell my customers I cannot afford to install thier Snook light on the dock or fix the GFI??? I can wire your multi million $ house but can't wire your $2000,00 boat lift???? Looks like a good nich market for a while would be dock work only.:?:rant:
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
That was how I saw it as we'll, the company does so little work on those types of jobs it would not be worth it to get the coverage.
 

John120/240

Senior Member
Location
Olathe, Kansas
Educate us land locked folks please. What is the reasoning to require a different workmans compensation insurance policy ? The last time I checked electricity still works the same way on both sides of this sea wall.
 

Cavie

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
Federal Government. Insurance lobbys. Big Money. This whole thing is Federaly mandated. It's been just slow to ketch on.
 

texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
How many are aware of "Longshoreman's workmans comp insurance requirements??? It is a Federal Mandated Program. It's been on the books for some time here in Florida but most govenments have not required it. That has changed. It is now being inforced by local departments in SW Florida. The short version is..........Once you step over the seawall and onto any dock to do work over any navigable water, on any dock or any boat, you must have LS insurance. This includes private docks as well. Your normal workmans comp does not apply. Your workmans comp exemption forms also do not apply. There is no exemption. I'm told at this time min premiums start at $13,000.00 per year. A printed flyer form Charlotte Couty Fl Building Department states $10,000.00 fine and 1 year in jail. Anybody eles run into this.
Years ago when I lived in your neck of the woods we also went through this. Back then it wasn't the local government that brought the issue up for us, rather our comp carrier. It also applied to boats over a certain size. As we were large enough we just paid the extra premium on certain people that did this kind of work.
 

PetrosA

Senior Member
Someone needs to design an app that you can plug all your data into, then your phone will use it's GPS and photo recognition via Google and put out a warning signal when you're about to step into a pile of steamy stuff...

Aside from this Longshoreman's thing, it would be useful for frame lights - I was already done screwing the lamp to the frame when I flipped the painting back over and saw "Matisse" scrawled along the bottom. My heart almost jumped out of my throat - I don't have anywhere near enough coverage for something like that...
 

hardworkingstiff

Senior Member
Location
Wilmington, NC
Bob clued me in this conversation was going on over here. A friend of mine ran into this about 7 years ago, the WC carrier sent him a huge bill for the "Longshoreman and Harbormaster" coverage. He shared a copy of a letter he composed to fight it every year. He won (he says, and I have no reason to doubt him). I sent a copy of this to my insurance agent asking their opinion, they never would comment even after 3 request. Here is the meat of the letter.
It is our understanding that the Jones Act is a federal law that provides benefits for employees
injured on sea-going vessels in navigable waters and offshore oil rigs that are not
permanently affixed to the ocean floor. To recover under the Jones Act, the injury must have
occurred during the course of employment and the worker must prove seaman status.
Our research into this matter has shown that there are several essential requirements to
determine seaman status and gain recovery under the act:
? (a). An employee's duties must contribute to the function of the vessel or to
the accomplishment of its mission;
? (b). A seaman must have a connection with a vessel in navigation (or to an
identifiable group of such vessels), that is substantial in terms of both its
duration and its nature
? (c). The duration of a worker's connection to a vessel and the nature of the
worker's activities, taken together, determine whether a maritime worker is a
seaman because the ultimate inquiry is whether the worker in question is a
member of the vessel's crew or simply a land-based employee who happens to
be working on a vessel at a given time
? (d). A distinction must be made between sea-based workers and land-based
workers who have only a transitory or sporadic connection to a vessel in
navigation. Land-based maritime workers do not become seamen because
they happen to be working aboard a vessel when they are injured, and
seamen do not lose Jones Act protection where the course of their service to a
vessel takes them ashore. In evaluating the employment-related connection of
a maritime worker to a vessel in navigation, courts should not employ a
"snapshot" test for seamen status, inspecting only the situation as it exists at
the instant of injury; but rather, the total circumstances of an individual's
employment must be weighed to determine whether he has a sufficient
relation to the vessel and
? (e) Jones Act coverage (seaman status) depends not on the place where the
injury is inflicted, but on the nature of the seaman's service, his status as a
member of the vessel, and his relationship as such to the vessel and its
operation in navigable waters.
As installers of modular dock components, and operators of light-duty piling equipment, we
do not see that this coverage is applicable. Further, several court cases concerning this matter
would appear to validate our claims, as follows -
Construction worker was not seaman under 46 USCS Appx ? 688(a), where worker was
injured while drilling holes in wood pilings as part of boat dock construction project, and
although his work history showed involvement in marine construction projects, he was
involved only insofar as his welding or pile-driving skills were needed, much of work was
performed on land, worker was assigned on a project basis, not to a specific vessel or
group of vessels, and he always returned home to eat and sleep, driving back to job site
each day. Snowden v Woodington Corp. (1997, ED Va) 963 F Supp 526, 1997 AMC
2167, vacated, on reh, summary judgment den (1997, ED Va) 1997 US Dist LEXIS 10428.
Where employee was engaged in construction of marina, and he sustained injuries while
on raft carrying timber to marina, he could not recover under 46 USCS Appx ? 688
because movement of lumber to marina aboard raft was not activity in direct aid of
commerce and navigation, but only marginal and incidental to it. Garrisey v West Shore
Marina Associates (1970) 2 Wash App 718, 469 P2d 590.
Diver/dockbuilder who was employed in variety of marine construction jobs and who was
killed while on board heavy-lifting derrick barge in process of removing damaged
mooring platform was harbor worker, not "seaman," under Jones Act. Bundens v J.E.
Brenneman Co. (1995, CA3) 46 F3d 292, 1995 AMC 1330.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Someone needs to design an app that you can plug all your data into, then your phone will use it's GPS and photo recognition via Google and put out a warning signal when you're about to step into a pile of steamy stuff...

Boy if you could make that app you would be living large. :cool:
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
After speaking to (2) district managers of the Division of Longshore and Harbor Workers Compenstation Act, I don't see how my buddy got away with not paying this WC coverage.
I agree. The provision in question does not require that he be a seaman, which he is not. It also covers Longshoremen (which he also is not by many peoples definition) and any person who may not belong to either category but works over water.
 

Cavie

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
Do you relaise that you cannot even go on a dock and change a LV light builb??? Employee gets cut on rusty nail, infection sets in and your normal WC won't cover it. Trips over a loose board, breaks an arm.........not covered. :rant:
 

hurk27

Senior Member
I would have to see the actual law and how it is worded but from Bob's link I can't see how this applies to us because in the eyes of law were are actually a vendor:

You do not require insurance for your employees if they fall under the following exclusions:
Seamen (masters or members of a crew of any vessel);
Employees of the United States government or of any state or foreign government;
The LHWCA also excludes the following individuals if they are covered by a state workers' compensation law:
Individuals employed exclusively to perform office clerical, secretarial, security, or data processing work;
Individuals employed by a club, camp, recreational operation, restaurant, museum, or retail outlet;
Individuals employed by a marina and who are not engaged in construction, replacement, or expansion of such marina (except for routine maintenance);
Individuals who (A) are employed by suppliers, transporters, or vendors, (B) are temporarily doing business on the premises of a maritime employer, and (C) are not engaged in work normally performed by employees of that employer covered under the Act;

If our company is hired by a marina then we are a vendor of our service, we are not directly employed by the marina as we do not receive regular hourly paychecks from them, and if the marina does not regularly do electrical work which in most cases they couldn't because of licensees laws, not saying I'm right but this does not sound right?
 
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