Okay... but assuming the SE conduit runs down through the wall, how does it turn to go inside: conduit sweep or LB? An LB is required to be accessible. If it is accessible, then the SE is not entirely encased...
Cask of the Service Entrance (with apologies to Poe)
- Thread starter tonype
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PowerSupportElec
Member
- Location
- Ny
A couple weeks ago I went to a house in which the entire rigid 1 1/4" mast including the meter was held up by the LB. The mast went up about 20' and then elbowed horizontally about 3'. The whole thing was swinging in the breeze.
Apparently when the homeowner had the house re-sided they pried the straps and meter off the house and sided underneath it, but never reattached any of it.
So I have no doubt that whoever built that wall in the OP went right over the LB without a care in the world
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
Sure an LB would need access but considering the cost of a job like this cutting in an access panel shouldn't be a big deal. Lot cheaper than changing the service.
If the AHJ and the power company don't have a problem with then I don't see much wrong Other than I was wondering if any of those service cables are rubbing along the edges of that new sone.
I wish people would check on things like this before building their walls.
tonype
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
I know it is shocking to many not use to installs of SEC's inside of outside walls but it is very common in Florida and California, and many times the riser pipe is inside of the wood studded wall, the first time I was like Wow, and would never have unprotected conductors inside of the wall, but if we think about it, even on the surface they can start the house on fire, I have seen a few house fires started by old SE cables that had shorted out just on the surface, at least if installed in RMC they have a little chance that maybe the drop will burn free before the pipe blows through, and yes I have seen shorted SEC blow right through RMC, I remember someone posted a video of SEC's going off in a RMC pipe on a pole a while back, I had to watch it several times as it was really something as to how long it went on.
I would accept the SEC's installed between two layers of block way before I would if the old surface was combustible.
We had a house that if is wasn't for the fire retardant in the carpeting in the finished basement, it would have burned down, the SEC's ran across the basement in RMC about an inch under the concrete floor then up into the panel on an inside wall, the home owner was drilling into the floor to secure a shelving rack in a laundry room and drilled right into it, the concrete above the pipe was exploding as the SEC's burned off inside of the RMC all the way to the outside of the foundation, about the time it reached the 90? elbow the drop fell to the ground and on his car which left holes burned through the roof of the car, it did catch the car roof foam insulation on fire but by that time the fire department was there and put it out before there was any more damage to the car, the family room was a mess with the carpeting melted and burned all the way across the floor, we installed a disconnect and re-fed the panel in IMC through the same trench that the exploded concrete made and they just patch the concrete over it.
I would accept the SEC's installed between two layers of block way before I would if the old surface was combustible.
We had a house that if is wasn't for the fire retardant in the carpeting in the finished basement, it would have burned down, the SEC's ran across the basement in RMC about an inch under the concrete floor then up into the panel on an inside wall, the home owner was drilling into the floor to secure a shelving rack in a laundry room and drilled right into it, the concrete above the pipe was exploding as the SEC's burned off inside of the RMC all the way to the outside of the foundation, about the time it reached the 90? elbow the drop fell to the ground and on his car which left holes burned through the roof of the car, it did catch the car roof foam insulation on fire but by that time the fire department was there and put it out before there was any more damage to the car, the family room was a mess with the carpeting melted and burned all the way across the floor, we installed a disconnect and re-fed the panel in IMC through the same trench that the exploded concrete made and they just patch the concrete over it.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
I see one more problem besides the buried LB, if you zoom in on the photo the weather heads have 4 wires, which it appears to be a 120/208 3-phase service or a 4-wire delta, the neutral connection to the messenger is buried also, it appears that there are 3 weather heads so there must be three meters?, I would have at least put a bend in each conduit so the weather heads would be outside of the block as well as relocated the attachment point to the new block which is also buried, someone really didn't think this one out, as if these SEC's ever need to be replaced it will be a fun job trying to remove those weather heads.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
My guess no electrical professional was even consulted on this job, they just brought masons in and they blocked it up.
tonype
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Well, that is not pretty at all.
Not sure if it is a direct NEC violation though-too lazy to search.
I still lean towards the SECs being outside unless the inside wall has been compromised.
The LB matter is another story.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Okay, I searched.
The POA is existing so I do not see this as a violation, but it could be as the POA is no longer visible.
The POA is existing so I do not see this as a violation, but it could be as the POA is no longer visible.
tonype
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
Well, that is not pretty at all.
Not sure if it is a direct NEC violation though-too lazy to search.
I still lean towards the SECs being outside unless the inside wall has been compromised.
The LB matter is another story.
Is there any concern about abrasion damage to the conductor insulation against the masonry?
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
I would say there would be great concern regarding that IMO.
Methods such as providing insulating materiel and essentially creating a bushing in the block opening could be employed.
However, probably nothing is ever going to look like more than a patchwork job though.
Concrete block is neither an identified fitting for the purpose nor an insulator. That makes the neutral/mesenger attachment a violation.
How much are the drip loops actually going to move at the concrete block to cause abrasion? The drop itself may sway with wind, but movement at attachment points is minimal.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
The noodle/messenger is not exactly attached to the block mechanically as in the POA is not the block itself, but the fitting behind it.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
The neutral is mortared into the wall. I doubt that this is compliant.
mjf
Senior Member
I suppose technichally its not "attached"....more like embedded.....is it rated for direct contact with cement?
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Probably correct, but we need a code section to be definitive, or as Bob said: it is a AHJ call and I agreed.
John120/240
Senior Member
- Location
- Olathe, Kansas
Spend several thousand dollars on a new block wall and ignore the electrical service; Priceless
jumper
Senior Member
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- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
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