Show Windows - Article 220

[Npstewart]

Im working on a small chain restaurant that has approximately 29 feet of show window and just want to make sure I have this all correct. I received a electrical code comment that says "Calculate show window load per 220.43". Im pretty familar with 220.43 but it seems excessive.

So basically 220.43 says 200 VA / ft * 29 feet = 5800 va * 1.25 (continuous) = 7,250 va. Lets say I put 1900 VA on a circuit, this would be 7250/1900 = 4 circuits.

210.62 says I need (1) receptacle within 18" of the window every 12 feet. 29 feet/12 = 3 receptacles. I cant put one receptacle on two circuits (without putting 208v in one box anyway) so I actually need to add one additional receptacle.

Is this all correct? Anyone agree that 7,250 watts is excessive for a show window? I need to actually add a whole panel to accommodate all these circuits.

 

[GoldDigger]

Is this all correct? Anyone agree that 7,250 watts is excessive for a show window? I need to actually add a whole panel to accommodate all these circuits.

Looking at the definition of Show Window in the code (Art 100), I would like to know more about this window.
I do not think that the code description of "used for the display of ... advertising material" is intended to apply to a normal window with advertising posters attached to it. The concept behind the watts/foot specification is that the material in the show window will require power for sign lighting, portable display lighting, motorized displays, etc.
Is the restaurant window in question currently used that way or capable of being used that way?
Not necessarily questioning the definition or the inspector's decision necessarily based on the wording of the code section, but wondering whether it really logically applies to this window and whether there may be room for an exception.

 

[kwired]

Im working on a small chain restaurant that has approximately 29 feet of show window and just want to make sure I have this all correct. I received a electrical code comment that says "Calculate show window load per 220.43". Im pretty familar with 220.43 but it seems excessive.

So basically 220.43 says 200 VA / ft * 29 feet = 5800 va * 1.25 (continuous) = 7,250 va. Lets say I put 1900 VA on a circuit, this would be 7250/1900 = 4 circuits.

210.62 says I need (1) receptacle within 18" of the window every 12 feet. 29 feet/12 = 3 receptacles. I cant put one receptacle on two circuits (without putting 208v in one box anyway) so I actually need to add one additional receptacle.

Is this all correct? Anyone agree that 7,250 watts is excessive for a show window? I need to actually add a whole panel to accommodate all these circuits.

First 220.43 is under 220 part III "Feeder and Service load calculations". The result here is for calculating feeders and services, and says nothing about calculating branch circuits. It may be assuming more load than just the receptacles required by 210.62. Plus you would not add an extra 25% for continuous load at this point of any feeder or service calculations so your show window load is 5800VA but is added to feeder or service calculations and not to determining branch circuit load.

 

[Smart $]

Looking at the definition of Show Window in the code (Art 100), I would like to know more about this window.
I do not think that the code description of "used for the display of ... advertising material" is intended to apply to a normal window with advertising posters attached to it. The concept behind the watts/foot specification is that the material in the show window will require power for sign lighting, portable display lighting, motorized displays, etc.
Is the restaurant window in question currently used that way or capable of being used that way?
Not necessarily questioning the definition or the inspector's decision necessarily based on the wording of the code section, but wondering whether it really logically applies to this window and whether there may be room for an exception.

I considered the point you bring up, but I did not see any distinguishment in the definition between electrified and non-electrified advertising materials. Being an electrical code definition, one could easily interpret as applying only to electrified... but then again there are other definitions which apply to non-electrical equipment. Where to draw the line...???

 

[Smart $]

First 220.43 is under 220 part III "Feeder and Service load calculations". The result here is for calculating feeders and services, and says nothing about calculating branch circuits. It may be assuming more load than just the receptacles required by 210.62. Plus you would not add an extra 25% for continuous load at this point of any feeder or service calculations so your show window load is 5800VA but is added to feeder or service calculations and not to determining branch circuit load.

I think that's the point of 220.43. You have to allow for possible show window load on the service or feeder, and also include in the determination of the number of branch circuits available. Beyond 210.62 requiring one receptacle be installed, additional breakers, wiring, and, receptacles only need be installed should the load exceed the capacity of the first receptacle.

 

[cadpoint]

I think.... Beyond 210.62 requiring one receptacle be installed, additional breakers, wiring, and, receptacles only need be installed should the load exceed the capacity of the first receptacle.

I'll let you have your opinion, OK let me say it this way that, IT's not said that way.

Here's my overall read of the Code!

The Code says where things need to happen and where any addressing of any the circuits size or service requirements need to be applied and addressed accordingly, and always required as stated.

Respectfully


Sorry Smart, NP; it just hit some chord.
I didn't read 210.62

 

[GoldDigger]

I considered the point you bring up, but I did not see any distinguishment in the definition between electrified and non-electrified advertising materials. Being an electrical code definition, one could easily interpret as applying only to electrified... but then again there are other definitions which apply to non-electrical equipment. Where to draw the line...???

I see your point too, but what I am looking at is that since any window of any commercial establishment could have a sign or poster inside it, does that mean that all windows are automatically show windows? I think that there is a distinction that needs to be made between windows and show windows, but the code definition does not give good enough guidance as to what that distinction is.

Is the drive up cashier window a show window if you put a monthly special add in it? Are all windows of a bank show windows?

The "classic" show window was the enclosed space on the street-level windows of a department store where elaborate advertising displays were set up. But the code is very clear that it does not have to have a raised floor, or a rear wall, or any enclosure. Does it have to have depth, that is an identifiable space behind it used for display purposes?

Another example for thought: If restaurant tables or booths are set against the window, it clearly is not being used as dedicated show window space. But is it still a show window because food (the goods being sold) is placed on the tables?

Now in the case of a window at a Chinese restaurant which contains replica plates of food I would be comfortable with calling that portion of the window a show window.

 

[Smart $]

I see your point too, but what I am looking at is that since any window of any commercial establishment could have a sign or poster inside it, does that mean that all windows are automatically show windows? I think that there is a distinction that needs to be made between windows and show windows, but the code definition does not give good enough guidance as to what that distinction is.

Is the drive up cashier window a show window if you put a monthly special add in it? Are all windows of a bank show windows?

The "classic" show window was the enclosed space on the street-level windows of a department store where elaborate advertising displays were set up. But the code is very clear that it does not have to have a raised floor, or a rear wall, or any enclosure. Does it have to have depth, that is an identifiable space behind it used for display purposes?

Another example for thought: If restaurant tables or booths are set against the window, it clearly is not being used as dedicated show window space. But is it still a show window because food (the goods being sold) is placed on the tables?

Now in the case of a window at a Chinese restaurant which contains replica plates of food I would be comfortable with calling that portion of the window a show window.

We're on the same page. Not my intent to blur what is or isn't a show window.

 

[GoldDigger]

We're on the same page. Not my intent to blur what is or isn't a show window.

Which leads back to the question to the OP about just why the inspector is calling this a 29' show window.

 

[Smart $]

Which leads back to the question to the OP about just why the inspector is calling this a 29' show window.

It may not be an inspector, per se. OP just says a comment was made "Calculate show window load per 220.43". My assumption was a document notation from a plan review, likely because of not including any show window load in the load calculations. However, your point to question who is saying 29' and whether it actually is 29' is warranted...