7,200 volts on house wiring

[rgsmith]

I just wanted to throw this out there to get some other opinions. I have a situation in which the utility company's primary fell across the secondary and energized the grounded (neutral) conductor to the house. completely destroyed the panel and blew out half a dozen or so receptacles spread through out the house. My question is, what is my obligation as an inspector to the homeowner. The contractor changed out the panel and is only asking me to inspect the panel change. My concern is the wiring I cant see. I was wondering if any one has had any experience with this, and whether or not I need to be concerned with the rest of the wiring.

 

[kwired]

I just wanted to throw this out there to get some other opinions. I have a situation in which the utility company's primary fell across the secondary and energized the grounded (neutral) conductor to the house. completely destroyed the panel and blew out half a dozen or so receptacles spread through out the house. My question is, what is my obligation as an inspector to the homeowner. The contractor changed out the panel and is only asking me to inspect the panel change. My concern is the wiring I cant see. I was wondering if any one has had any experience with this, and whether or not I need to be concerned with the rest of the wiring.

Megger testing will tell you if there is potential for stray paths down the road, but will not actually tell you if insulation is intact, just that there is no continuity to any reference you test to.

any idea as to how long the exposure was? With lightning it is all over in an instant, with POCO distribution you have to have enough fault to operate protective devices, which usually happens but may take time, and even then some devices are reclosers and will attempt to reset a few times before remaining open.

 

[GoldDigger]

My question is, what is my obligation as an inspector to the homeowner. The contractor changed out the panel and is only asking me to inspect the panel change.

Are you acting as the AHJ inspector or as an insurance inspector or as a private home inspector for the homeowner or what? That affects your legal responsibility as well as your freedom to go further.
If you are inspecting for the AHJ, then you should be able to inspect any work that was done, not just what the contractor asks you to inspect.

 

[iwire]

In my opinion there is no doubt at all the home should be rewired.

 

[curt swartz]

In my opinion there is no doubt at all the home should be rewired.

I agree 100%!!

 

[growler]

My question is, what is my obligation as an inspector to the homeowner. The contractor changed out the panel and is only asking me to inspect the panel change. My concern is the wiring I cant see. I was wondering if any one has had any experience with this, and whether or not I need to be concerned with the rest of the wiring.

I have delt with power surges caused by the power company where there was extensive damage to the wiring and property.

I don't understand why this contractor is taking it upon him/her self to only change out the panel.

Normally when you can get the power company to admit they have caused damage they will send out an engineer to work with the electrician to access the damage. In a case like this I would think the building wiring would be condemned until there is a rewire or at least a complete inspection before power is restored.

If I were the contractor and no one else wanted to help I would call the Fire Marshal and see if he wouldn't condemn the house as unsafe.

As an inspector I would probably talk to the building code official. I would think there would have to be a new certificate of occupancy.

 

[Hv&Lv]

I just wanted to throw this out there to get some other opinions. I have a situation in which the utility company's primary fell across the secondary and energized the grounded (neutral) conductor to the house. completely destroyed the panel and blew out half a dozen or so receptacles spread through out the house. My question is, what is my obligation as an inspector to the homeowner. The contractor changed out the panel and is only asking me to inspect the panel change. My concern is the wiring I cant see. I was wondering if any one has had any experience with this, and whether or not I need to be concerned with the rest of the wiring.

We had that happen a few years ago.

The wires were burnt in the wall also.

Change it all. There will be problems later if you don't.

 

[nizak]

I agree with insisting on a rewire. I had a similar situation where the panel was destroyed and only a couple of GFCI's were damaged. Upon going into the crawl space I found romex that was totally burnt up. The path of damage was selective, I also found that wherever the romex touched metallic surfaces(copper pipe, aluminum siding, etc)it was blown out.The circuits leading from the panel looked to be fine but at different distances away it looked like someone took a propane torch and burned them. Very odd pattern of damage.I would not sign my name to anything unless all the existing wiring was replaced.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I just wanted to throw this out there to get some other opinions. I have a situation in which the utility company's primary fell across the secondary and energized the grounded (neutral) conductor to the house. completely destroyed the panel and blew out half a dozen or so receptacles spread through out the house. My question is, what is my obligation as an inspector to the homeowner. The contractor changed out the panel and is only asking me to inspect the panel change. My concern is the wiring I cant see. I was wondering if any one has had any experience with this, and whether or not I need to be concerned with the rest of the wiring.

he's only asking you to inspect the panel change?
how thoughtful of him. it doesn't work that way.

premises wiring is rated for 600 VAC. that has been exceeded by an
order of magnitude. it's UL listing is therefore void.

unless the electrical contractor can demonstrate to the AHJ that the
wiring is serviceable, (a megger at 1KVDC would suffice IMHO)
i'd say that it's time to replace all the wiring in the house, and the
devices as well.

 

[ActionDave]

The house needs a rewire.

 

[petersonra]

I just wanted to throw this out there to get some other opinions. I have a situation in which the utility company's primary fell across the secondary and energized the grounded (neutral) conductor to the house. completely destroyed the panel and blew out half a dozen or so receptacles spread through out the house. My question is, what is my obligation as an inspector to the homeowner. The contractor changed out the panel and is only asking me to inspect the panel change. My concern is the wiring I cant see. I was wondering if any one has had any experience with this, and whether or not I need to be concerned with the rest of the wiring.

I think your job is to inspect the work the EC did under the permit issued if that is your job. Anything else is outside of your scope.

I think that the wiring is suspect. But, unless the EC worked on it it is not your concern IMO.

I also think in this case you have zero responsibility to the HO. Your responsibility is to the agency you work for. that does not mean you cannot honestly answer questions the HO might have.

 

[petersonra]

bump

 

[Hv&Lv]

I think your job is to inspect the work the EC did under the permit issued if that is your job. Anything else is outside of your scope.

I think that the wiring is suspect. But, unless the EC worked on it it is not your concern IMO.

I also think in this case you have zero responsibility to the HO. Your responsibility is to the agency you work for. that does not mean you cannot honestly answer questions the HO might have.

What if his state has adopted section 80 in whole? I would think this house is a danger to the residents and therefore the inspector is in his right to inspect everything he wants or needs to look at to make sure the house is inhabitable.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Had the same thing happen here. The good thing was is that a local electrician, who always does a great job, worked on the house. He too was concerned so when I told him I would really like him to megger the house, he was more than happy to do it. Turned out the wiring showed fine. As an AHJ I really couldn't ask him to do more than that. But if they would have wanted to rewire the house, I sure wouldn't have talked him out of it either.

We did know for a fact that the utility line had landed on the uninsulated, grounded, service feed so, you could see where it had gone down the ground rod and there was some EMT run under the eves and every where there was a strap, there was an arc mark. Also blew out anything with electronics, phone, micro, tv, GFCI's, etc.

 

[petersonra]

What if his state has adopted section 80 in whole? I would think this house is a danger to the residents and therefore the inspector is in his right to inspect everything he wants or needs to look at to make sure the house is inhabitable.

what is section 80?

in any case the OP never said anything about having any state issued authority to essentially condemn a private residence for this kind of thing. is there any state where they have given electrical inspectors this kind of power?

just what would his criteria be to proving it is that dangerous?

BTW, inspectors have no "rights" at all as inspectors. They may have powers, but that is not the same thing as rights.

 

[iwire]

what is section 80?

You can see it in annex H of the NEC but I do not think it has been adopted anywhere.

However most places have rules to take the place of Article 80.

In MA we have rules 3 and 4.

in any case the OP never said anything about having any state issued authority to essentially condemn a private residence for this kind of thing. is there any state where they have given electrical inspectors this kind of power?

Condemn? I do not know about that but they can have the utility cut off electrical service which in many areas could start the ball rolling to the removal of the certificate of occupancy.

 

[growler]

in any case the OP never said anything about having any state issued authority to essentially condemn a private residence for this kind of thing. is there any state where they have given electrical inspectors this kind of power?

I doubt if the inspector has a right or authority to condemn a property but the Fire Marshal or the building code official sure as heck does and probably would if this incident were properly reported.

They may not have to rewire the house but a complete safety inspection should be required. What this does is make the electrician really inspects the electrical system and finds it safe and then the inspector can either accept these findings or question them. This puts all the responsibilty on the electrician so if there is any doubt at all then it's rewire time.

The reason most electricians would rewire is that you are really sticking your neck out there to verify wiring like this is safe.

The power company zapped it so let them pay for the rewire.

 

[kwired]

The power company zapped it so let them pay for the rewire.

That only works if you you can prove they were negligent in any way.

If this line fell as an "act of God" they will get out of it, and owner better hope his insurance will cover it.

A few years ago we had a river flooding, it washed out the base of a tree and it took down one conductor of a transmission line feeding the town (maybe 38 KV or so) and it fell on a local distribution line (2400/4160 system). Not only did this leave the entire town without power for a couple hours but it sent a surge through the phase it hit and people scattered around town had damages related to the surge. One house would have damaged items while the next one had nothing - probably not connected to same phase.

This was an "act of God" and POCO was not liable for anything ...even though they probably could have kept trees near the transmission line cleared far enough to not be a threat to the line:happyyes:

 

[Tom Jones]

I just wanted to throw this out there to get some other opinions. I have a situation in which the utility company's primary fell across the secondary and energized the grounded (neutral) conductor to the house. completely destroyed the panel and blew out half a dozen or so receptacles spread through out the house. My question is, what is my obligation as an inspector to the homeowner. The contractor changed out the panel and is only asking me to inspect the panel change. My concern is the wiring I cant see. I was wondering if any one has had any experience with this, and whether or not I need to be concerned with the rest of the wiring.

At the risk of sounding like a "me, too", I want to add my third that the whole thing needs to be rewired. I got to see the damage done when a 12kv dropped on the uninsulated overhead neutral to the building also, and it destroyed everything electrical, even the porcelain lampholder in the attic. It was quite stunning. The damage is very unpredictable. In this case the utility had an insulator that just broke one sunny day and the occupancy was a fire house, so they had to eat the whole thing.

 

[spark master]

The neutral for the primary, is the same as the secondary, so that should have blew out the pole fuse rather quickly. That's a direct to ground fault.