Most important basic-design-criteria

[SPERRY-1]

All,

I was working on explaining separately derived sources and the grounding related therein when an opinion surfaced. I want to know what others think on this situation. I personally think GROUNDING and BONDING correctly are the most important basic-design-criteria. I mean this in terms of actually understanding what you are doing, not just being a code monkey. What does a more experienced master or engineer think is the most important?

Thanks all

 

[iwire]

I am not sure it is question that has an answer. Would you rather be killed by a fire or a shock?

If the bonding is done wrong there may be a potential for lethal shock.

Size the conductors incorrectly and you may cause a fire.

It would be great if everyone knew and understood why bonding is important but it is a enough that they know how to do it even without knowing why.

 

[SPERRY-1]

It would be great if everyone knew and understood why bonding is important but it is a enough that they know how to do it even without knowing why.

You make a valid point,

I feel that doing something without true understanding leads to mistakes in application every time, whether installing which I am very familiar with or in design which I am going to become very familiar with.

I feel all electricians should do things with purpose, not as zombies reading the code, or a print that was designed by a potential EIT (Engineer In Training). I understand that an EIT can't seal drawings but RFI's happen everyday because of this exact thing.

I can show anyone how to wire up a bonding jumper to a GE, but the first time I am not around to check on them is the only time that matters. If they understand why I asked them to perform the task they are much more likely to do it correctly when it is unsupervised.

I think that sizing phase conductors is important don't get me wrong, I just have a personal belief that before you are a journeyman or before you design your first circuit, you should have a complete and thorough understanding og bonding and grounding.

Hope this didn't come across rude, It was not meant that way!

 

[ActionDave]

I feel that doing something without true understanding leads to mistakes in application every time, whether installing which I am very familiar with or in design which I am going to become very familiar with.

You make a valid point too but if you take it too far you fall off into the abyss.

I work with an electrician that is as good as you will find. He does most anything faster and better than I can. The thing is he doesn't really know why; he has just spent his whole life learning how to do it right.

As long as you know enough to get it right, grounding and bonding and otherwise, I'm okay with that.

 

[BAHTAH]

Understanding Why

Understanding Why

I think you will become a better electrician through understanding why you do all the things you do. Not just grounding and bonding, although your post does open up the
question of understanding. If you want to be better at trouble-shooting for example, then knowing the electrical theory of your installation will help that happen. It is much
easier to find problems than are possible rather then not understanding the theory and looking for things that are not possible. As far as those you work with, I would not
be surprised if the electricians you think are good do not understand more than you give them credit for. I know that sometimes if your working with someone new to the
trade, you find yourself taking in terms that you think everyone should know only to find out later that they may not have understood what you were talking about but were
shy in asking you to explain. This industry is ever changing and no one ever knows all there is to know. We all do our best to keep up with the changes, not just in codes but in products that are available. And in the middle of keeping up, one day you decide to open your own shop and then you can spend 24/7 trying to keep up.

 

[infinity]

Almost all of the electricians I work with wouldn't know the difference between Tables 250.66 and 250.122. If a conductor size wasn't told to them by someone or on a print they would have no idea how to find the correct answer. I would start with learning that before they had to learn the difference between grounding and bonding. :roll:

 

[SPERRY-1]

Almost all of the electricians I work with wouldn't know the difference between Tables 250.66 and 250.122. If a conductor size wasn't told to them by someone or on a print they would have no idea how to find the correct answer. I would start with learning that before they had to learn the difference between grounding and bonding. :roll:

I just want a person that calls themselves a journeyman, master, or a designer to to comprehend what they are doing.

For example, on the design side, I feel like every design firm has a standard detail for the "grounding electrode system". do they ever make sure the EIT's understand the vital role a properly installed grounding system plays? I would bet money school doesn't teach that. Not to pick on engineers either because I'm driving down that road as we speak, I just used the first example that came to mind.

Electricians goof up grounding all the time too. Just installing a ground rod without checking the ohms to ground or not bonding to all applicable grounding references in a given structure. Which isn't code anyway.

I'll get off my soapbox because I seem to be the only one that worries about implementation without full understanding. Plus I have a Fluid Mechanics final tomorrow which will be much less fun than discussing electrical with all of the knowledgeable people on this forum (that was meant respectfully, Seriously).

G'night

 

[don_resqcapt19]

... I would start with learning that before they had to learn the difference between grounding and bonding. :roll:

How can we expect the electricians to know that when the code itself doesn't even know?