Liability Question

[Cavie]

Do to the adoption of Longshoreman's insurance, I've been informed by our workman's comp carrier that they will not cover us working on docks. They don't offer Longshoreman's. I am the qualifier for the company not the owner. VERY LEGAL IN FLORIDA SO DON'T START. We are in the process of getting quotes but it is a long process. Not may company's offer it. The partners of my company have a big job coming up and are willing to cut corners until we get it. I have ordered the employees to stay off the docks. My question is, as qualifier, am I held responsible for and accident with my license or is it the owners responsibility. Insurance will be purchased but timing is an issue and one of the owners is going over my head.

 

[kwired]

Do to the adoption of Longshoreman's insurance, I've been informed by our workman's comp carrier that they will not cover us working on docks. They don't offer Longshoreman's. I am the qualifier for the company not the owner. VERY LEGAL IN FLORIDA SO DON'T START. We are in the process of getting quotes but it is a long process. Not may company's offer it. The partners of my company have a big job coming up and are willing to cut corners until we get it. I have ordered the employees to stay off the docks. My question is, as qualifier, am I held responsible for and accident with my license or is it the owners responsibility. Insurance will be purchased but timing is an issue and one of the owners is going over my head.

Are you the employer or an employee?

Your license doesn't make you an employer, it determines what kind of work activity you can legally do. Sounds like maybe you have some kind of contractor license but are not the owner of the company. Your license allows you to design, bid, install, and/or supervise such procedures, but the license alone does not necessarily make you an employer. Now an employer may give you the responsibility to take care of such things as part of your job, but the employer is still ultimately responsible for making sure employment laws are followed, as well as assumes general liability of the company.

If something happens and they can prove gross negligence on your part, then you may be in trouble.

JMO.

 

[Cavie]

Are you the employer or an employee?

Your license doesn't make you an employer, it determines what kind of work activity you can legally do. Sounds like maybe you have some kind of contractor license but are not the owner of the company. Your license allows you to design, bid, install, and/or supervise such procedures, but the license alone does not necessarily make you an employer. Now an employer may give you the responsibility to take care of such things as part of your job, but the employer is still ultimately responsible for making sure employment laws are followed, as well as assumes general liability of the company.

If something happens and they can prove gross negligence on your part, then you may be in trouble.

JMO.

No I am not the employer. I am an employee/qualifier of the company. There are 3 owners. The company is licensed to contract in Florida using my license. Unlimited Electric Contractor. We must carry state required insurance. That means if we wish to do dock work we must have Longshoreman's insurance. It is a Federally mandated insurance adopted by the State of Florida. ANYONE working on a dock or a boat tied to it must have it. If you work in Florida you had best call you workman's comp carrier. My question is "is my license at risk or is it the owners at risk"? I do wish professional answer, not "It's my opinion".

 

[kwired]

No I am not the employer. I am an employee/qualifier of the company. There are 3 owners. The company is licensed to contract in Florida using my license. Unlimited Electric Contractor. We must carry state required insurance. That means if we wish to do dock work we must have Longshoreman's insurance. It is a Federally mandated insurance adopted by the State of Florida. ANYONE working on a dock or a boat tied to it must have it. If you work in Florida you had best call you workman's comp carrier. My question is "is my license at risk or is it the owners at risk"? I do wish professional answer, not "It's my opinion".

If you want a professional answer then contact an attorney. Most any other answer you will get here should be taken as nothing more than opinion.

 

[petersonra]

Why are you even asking? You know the answer is that you need to be covered by longshoreman's insurance if you are doing work in places that is required.

 

[GUNNING]

Florida has shared liability. That means everyone involved gets sued if the opposing council is any good. Get the Insurance, you are criminally negligent if you don't have it and know you need it. Have you thought about leasing the employees as a stop gap measure? I would put the onus on the insurance agency. Get them involved and find you a policy that would CYA. Send a notice to the Pesident of the company you qualify for and notice them of the defect. Return receipt requested. This wont relieve your responsibility but will show you are not voluntarily participating in the decisions. Any Contract that involves illegal activities is voided. Who pays for and owns the current policy and is this part of your agreement?

 

[petersonra]

Florida has shared liability. That means everyone involved gets sued if the opposing council is any good. Get the Insurance, you are criminally negligent if you don't have it and know you need it. Have you thought about leasing the employees as a stop gap measure? I would put the onus on the insurance agency. Get them involved and find you a policy that would CYA. Send a notice to the Pesident of the company you qualify for and notice them of the defect. Return receipt requested. This wont relieve your responsibility but will show you are not voluntarily participating in the decisions. Any Contract that involves illegal activities is voided. Who pays for and owns the current policy and is this part of your agreement?

Rather than a game involving return receipts and such things, just sit down with the owner and explain to him the way things are. If he is unwilling to deal with the issue in a way you are comfortable it is probably time to part ways with him. In the meantime, just refuse to have anything to do with projects that you do not have insurance for.

I suspect, but do not know with any certainty, that leasing employees does not deal with the problem in an effective way. The guy himself is going to have to be on site now and then and does not have the proper insurance.

 

[wolfman56]

I looked up the Florida statute for you.

REGULATION OF PROFESSIONS AND OCCUPATIONS Chapter 489

489.522 Qualifying agents; responsibilities.—
(1)(a) A qualifying agent is a primary qualifying agent unless he or she is a secondary qualifying agent under this section. All primary qualifying agents for a business organization are jointly and equally responsible for supervision of all operations of the business organization; for all field work at all sites; and for financial matters, both for the organization in general and for each specific job.

>>>My Comment; Notice it says that you would be held JOINTLY and EQUALLY responsible for all operations. It looks to me that at the very least you could get a fine or lose your license.

(b) Any change in the status of a qualifying agent is prospective only. A qualifying agent is not responsible for his or her predecessor’s actions, but is responsible, even after a change in status, for matters for which he or she was responsible while in a particular status.

>>>>My Comment; Even after you left the company they will hold you responsible for what went on while you were there.

A comparable license is the Oregon Supervisors license. The whole idea of this license is to make someone the responsible party to insure all business is conducted legally. I was a signer for a company that I found out that the owner would do jobs without permits! As I was investigating I discovered that he had just wired up a propane dispenser at a gas station without a permit! I could be at risk even if I quit because he did that while I was his signer. To protect myself I quit, and the same day contacted the state chief what was done. The owner now hates me but has no idea how bad he was screwing me if he got caught.

Rick

 

[Cavie]

We are leased employees. That's the problem. The leasing company does not offer LSI and does not cover us to work on docks with the standard WCI. As I stated, We do intend to get the proper insurance. It's just a timing matter. Big job in our hands and the clock is ticking. I forgot about 489. Thanks for the heads up Wolfman. I did get in writing the rules for the owners to read so things are good now. One of them also owns an AC company and has the LSI insurance for working on boats soooo........The employees who work on docks from my company are being but on the AC company payroll and they do the work. I'm off the hook. (this is a temporary fix) Working outside the scope of his license???not my problem.