Florida regulations on GFCIs

[SegDog]

Hello,

I just moved to a condo in Broward County. None of the condos that I examined, including my own have any GFIs, ground fault breakers, anything. I asked the in-house mechanic, and he said, "this is Florida."

This is crazy. Can anyone elaborate?

 

[roger]

Hello,

I just moved to a condo in Broward County. None of the condos that I examined, including my own have any GFIs, ground fault breakers, anything. I asked the in-house mechanic, and he said, "this is Florida."

This is crazy. Can anyone elaborate?

I think it's a plan to get rid of the people that caused the voting problems.

In reality, it depends on how old your condo is as to what GFCI's were required at the time.

Roger

 

[SegDog]

Understood

Understood

Some of the kitchens and baths are relatively, new re-models. I never worked in a jurisdiction that tolerated no GFIs in re-models or re-sold. These are all inspected and heavily permitted. No rhyme or reason...

 

[PetrosA]

Some of the kitchens and baths are relatively, new re-models. I never worked in a jurisdiction that tolerated no GFIs in re-models or re-sold. These are all inspected and heavily permitted. No rhyme or reason...

That would seem strange to me as well. There's only one AHJ in the Philly area that I've heard of that grandfathers in a lack of GFIs when selling homes - somewhere in the Chadds Ford area. Birmingham Township, maybe?

 

[kwired]

Though a safety report of some kind is maybe nice I really feel it is wrong for anyone to expect things be brought up to current codes when selling any real estate.

If you are trying to sell a used car how well would it go over if it were required to comply with new car emissions and safety standards?

Selling anything that is not new is going to generally be an "as is" limited or no warranty type of situation.

Even here when selling commercial property things like ADA rules are grandfathered for existing properties. But if the new owner decides to make rennovations they likely need to be in compliance with whatever they rennovate.

 

[mjf]

Some of the kitchens and baths are relatively, new re-models. I never worked in a jurisdiction that tolerated no GFIs in re-models or re-sold. These are all inspected and heavily permitted. No rhyme or reason...

It is possible to remodel a kitchen without any electrical upgrades/changes (I've never experienced it).

You said you moved in to this condo, not sure if you bought it or are renting...it's possible it's never been sold and then the lack of GFCI's would go unnoticed.

Also possible the AHJ has been given really nice birthday envelopes when it's not his/her birthday:happysad:

 

[SegDog]

dazed and confused

dazed and confused

I shall re-phrase my initial post.

Recently, I re-located and purchased a condo in Broward County, Florida. Before that, I rented a condo in Florida.

I have worked in three (3) states, including Chadds Ford, PA, as one poster noted. I have never, ever, ever witnessed the number of non-gfci protected residences.

I have installed many a gfci in houses that were failed by inspectors of all stripes.

GFCIs were the one device that I preached about to many a homeowner; second to that were smokes and CO detectors.

Judging by some of the responses, I'm thinking that I'm living in an alternate universe.

GFCIs are not just an upgrade, but positively necessary for the protection of life, as referenced in the beginning of the NEC.

 

[suemarkp]

I not so sure....I've had 3 houses from the 60's now which had no GFCI's in the kitchen or bathroom. I've not been shocked yet. In the house I just sold, I retrofitted GFCI's in every place now required except for one bathroom. The "home inspector" flagged that, but I have no requirement to change it. I volunteered to fix that only because the newer GFCI's are smaller. Have you tried to put an older huge GFCI in a 4 sqaure by 1.25" box with a 1/2" mudring -- not much room for wires on the back of the GFCI and no room for wire nuts behind. This bathroom has a 1.5" box, so it will fit but barely. All the others I fixed earlier had the boxes removed and replaced with 2" deep or deeper boxes.

That's why I don't like these retrofits to be mandatory -- too many things that just don't work well and weren't thought about when they were built because there was no rule and the product wasn't even invented yet.

 

[mjf]

Hello,

I just moved to a condo in Broward County. None of the condos that I examined, including my own have any GFIs, ground fault breakers, anything. I asked the in-house mechanic, and he said, "this is Florida."

This is crazy. Can anyone elaborate?

It is possible to remodel a kitchen without any electrical upgrades/changes (I've never experienced it).

You said you moved in to this condo, not sure if you bought it or are renting...it's possible it's never been sold and then the lack of GFCI's would go unnoticed.

Also possible the AHJ has been given really nice birthday envelopes when it's not his/her birthday:happysad:

I shall re-phrase my initial post.

Recently, I re-located and purchased a condo in Broward County, Florida. Before that, I rented a condo in Florida.

I have worked in three (3) states, including Chadds Ford, PA, as one poster noted. I have never, ever, ever witnessed the number of non-gfci protected residences.

I have installed many a gfci in houses that were failed by inspectors of all stripes.

GFCIs were the one device that I preached about to many a homeowner; second to that were smokes and CO detectors.

Judging by some of the responses, I'm thinking that I'm living in an alternate universe.

GFCIs are not just an upgrade, but positively necessary for the protection of life, as referenced in the beginning of the NEC.

I do not believe you are from an alternate universe (though I barely know you).

I was trying to point out scenario's that could lead to your situation.

I always inform homeowners who are lacking GFCI's in bathroom/kitchen/outside area's about the added safety provided by GFCI.
I do NOT try to scare them into installing them. Probably 85% have me install them anyway.

As a side note, My parents bought a condo 7 or 8 years ago in Cape Canaveral (not sure what county that is) and they have GFCI's, as does my friend's condo in Cocoa Beach.

 

[SegDog]

more dazed and confused

more dazed and confused

Every year, I read about electrocutions; some of them avoidable. I try to improve my knowledge
and professionalism to assist homeowners in my capacity as electrician.

I don't try to "scare" anyone into a sale, but the result of telling them the truth may be an emotional reaction.

Sure, some situations are difficult, but there is always a way to increase safety or decrease hazard.

Frankly, some of the responses are shocking (no pun). Perhaps this explains alot.

 

[James S.]

Every year, I read about electrocutions; some of them avoidable. I try to improve my knowledge
and professionalism to assist homeowners in my capacity as electrician.

I don't try to "scare" anyone into a sale, but the result of telling them the truth may be an emotional reaction.

Sure, some situations are difficult, but there is always a way to increase safety or decrease hazard.

Frankly, some of the responses are shocking (no pun). Perhaps this explains alot.

Along these lines...A couple years ago I got a call from one of my oldest customers (both her age and time I have known her) She needed me to come out and fix her outlet on the back patio. I always ask a few questions for troubleshooting calls to see if it is something simple they can do themselves. She told me that while she was working in her backyard she accidently tripped and fell into the pool holding an extention cord that was still plugged in and ever since then the back patio outlet didn't work.

:slaphead: I had her go into the garage and reset the GFCI. Of course, I was her hero and she loves me. But it just goes to show how true 90.1 really is.

 

[SegDog]

I like a good pool story

I like a good pool story

Thanks Mike S.

My last two pool stories had similarities. Both homeowners were well-to-do. Both called me out
because of problems. Both had extension cords running across the grass to various motors and other backyard fixtures. Both did not have GFIs. Both scared the daylights out-of-me.

 

[PetrosA]

Every year, I read about electrocutions; some of them avoidable. I try to improve my knowledge
and professionalism to assist homeowners in my capacity as electrician.

I don't try to "scare" anyone into a sale, but the result of telling them the truth may be an emotional reaction.

Sure, some situations are difficult, but there is always a way to increase safety or decrease hazard.

Frankly, some of the responses are shocking (no pun). Perhaps this explains alot.

In SE PA, you weren't scaring people into upgrades - most AHJs in Delaware, Chester, Montgomery and Bucks counties require rental units to have GFI and smoke detection up to current codes and most either require GFI protection according to current codes for sale of a home or apartment or sellers will upgrade when the home inspection calls for it to be brought up to code. Those jurisdictions with a fire marshal also require upgrades to Zinsco and FPE panels as they're most likely to be aware of the dangers. It gets more lax as you move north and west.

 

[SegDog]

Florida is South

Florida is South

This reminds me of the instructor that said that we will never see 2-phase service.

The first commercial job that I worked-on was installing a two-to-three phase converter, in Old
City Philadelphia. After, I was sent-on a no power call, and, again, it was 2-phase.

But I digress...I am in South Florida now, and hoping to hear from Florida professionals.

 

[Sierrasparky]

In SE PA, you weren't scaring people into upgrades - most AHJs in Delaware, Chester, Montgomery and Bucks counties require rental units to have GFI and smoke detection up to current codes and most either require GFI protection according to current codes for sale of a home or apartment or sellers will upgrade when the home inspection calls for it to be brought up to code. Those jurisdictions with a fire marshal also require upgrades to Zinsco and FPE panels as they're most likely to be aware of the dangers. It gets more lax as you move north and west.

Mandatory upgrade on Zinsco. and FPE,,, What is the trigger for the upgrade.

 

[roger]

But I digress...I am in South Florida now, and hoping to hear from Florida professionals.

Why not contact the Building Code Department :roll:

Roger

 

[PetrosA]

Mandatory upgrade on Zinsco. and FPE,,, What is the trigger for the upgrade.

FPE lost it's UL listing, and I think Zinsco may have as well which means that insurance companies will likely not cover fire claims where they are in use. As such, local AHJs demand you change them out, especially if you're dealing with row homes, twins or houses built very close to each other.

Edit to add: I may have misread your question - the direct trigger would be the sale of the house/building. It's unsaleable until the upgrades are made, but I'm not sure how they work that out technically.

 

[SegDog]

Certificate of Occupancy (COA)

Certificate of Occupancy (COA)

Pete A.,

Most jurisdictions that I have worked-in have a COA, which must be issued before ownership transfer/settlement is permitted. Some claim that this is a way for local govs to make money, but most of their mandates
are for safety.

Roger,

Eventually, I will speak to someone official. I've learned that what I see and what I hear seem to always be two different things.

I was hoping to get the back-story on what is really going on. Sort of like knowing all of the facts before inserting foot-in-mouth. I believe that where I live is not covered by the county. Thanks anyway for the link.

 

[roger]

Pete A.,

I believe that where I live is not covered by the county.

In FL if it does not fall under a County inspection dept, it will be under the city department you are in, so call them.

Roger