Bryant quadplex surge-suppressor outlets

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RustyShackleford

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electrical engineer
Bump (hope that's kosher).

Really, no one here knows about these ? Can't imagine where else to ask. I'm especially curious if the surge suppressors are good - do they protect well, do they interrupt inappropriately, etc.
 

hurk27

Senior Member
Anyone have experience and/or informed opinion about the "quadplex" outlets made by Hubbell-Bryant, in particular the surge-suppressor ones ?

http://www.globalindustrial.com/g/e...s/straight-blade-devices/quadplex-receptacles

They are pretty pricey (esp. the surge ones, $40+) but if it's a good surge-suppressor, worth it I think.

Personally I have never liked installing a receptacle based surge protection as since they do fail over time or in a high rated surge I don't see the need for my customers to require an electrician to have to change it out when it reaches it's end of life, I much rather see a quality plug in surge protector with failure indicator lights that will warn the customers that it has reached it's end of life so they can easily make the replacement.

Also the fact that having my customer install a $40+ device that can cost even more by the time I figure in my labor time and 20% markup if I supply it, that could be better cost effective by installing quality duplex's in a double gain ring if 4 receptacles are needed which in most case are not because of most surge protectors having 6 or more outlets on it, also because many home owners like to rearrange things, it is much easier for the customer to unplug it and move it with the equipment they move to a new location without having to call an electrician.

But I have installed them when spec'd in the prints, and if that is what they want then that is what they get, I went to the link and noticed that there are no specs for the surge capability of these which I find strange, also I don't see any end of life indicator lights to let a person know that the unit is no longer protecting the loads which is a big problem for me.

I use Trip-Lite Isobar Ultra-4's for most of my equipment but I also have a Trip-Lite Iso-Bar with voltage regulation to prevent brown outs and over voltages on my entertainment system as well as my main computer even through I also use UPS systems on both they will provide a 120 volt output even if the input voltage goes from 50 to 250 volts, I have had at least one lightning strike to the transformer that feeds my house and the only damage was two DVD players that was plugged directly into the wall, if you need serious protection for expensive equipment then you need commercial grade protection devices and not just some off the shelf receptacles that wont provide this level of protection.
 

ELA

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Electrical Test Engineer
I didn't see any specifications on the surge portion of the unit.
Do you have a link to them?

Without surge specifications I would not recommend any surge protector.
I do like the receptacle configuration.
 

RustyShackleford

Senior Member
Location
NC
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electrical engineer
I didn't see any specifications on the surge portion of the unit.
Yeah, I noticed and didn't like that either.
Do you have a link to them?
There's this catalog section (see page C-5):

http://ecatalog.bryant-electric.com....aspx?Dest=bryant-electric.com/ecatalog/c.pdf

Actually, page C-2 does show some specs, but not clear if it applies only to the duplex ones on that page, or the quadplex ones below.

I do like the receptacle configuration.
They make 'em without the surge protection too. Hospital grade, isolated ground, 15- and 20-amp, etc. The link in my first post seems to show all the possibilities.
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
Well after seeing the spec's of the surge suppression it is in-line with most common MOV only suppression used in many low cost plug in suppression strip type devices sold, I don't like the fact that you almost have to have over 300 volt spikes before it starts really clamping which will let through voltages that can still cause damage to your equipment, at 212 volts it only provides 1MA of clamping, that is 100,000th of an amp, may be good for a static discharge but that is about all, the problem is HV transients at much higher frequency's can still get passed MOV only devices as they just can respond fast enough, also don't get hung up on the joule ratings as without other info they can be meaningless as the receptacle surge spec's in the link, mentions DC levels which is quite useless because most surges are a high frequency event.

A good higher level surge suppression will have not just one MOV for each mode of protection but layers of MOV's that can provide a more robust level of clamping at 60hz and below, for transients above the 60hz which most transients are a high frequency event your going to see high current LC filtering and chokes tuned to clamp any transients above the 60hz tuned as a high pass filtering system, in using the high pass method a much higher level of clamping can be obtained down to not allowing any voltages of a surge that is above the 60hz level, most will clamp these higher frequency surges to levels of 50 volts and below well below the damaging level of most 120 volt equipment as it is much below the equipments operating voltage, MOV's can't do this as they are a type of resistor and are not frequency dependent and if you set the clamping below the source voltage then they will try to clamp the source voltage and just burn up.

Sure this level of protection comes with a price, but its a price that is well invested when it comes to having to replace expensive electronics.

You are not going to get this level of protection in a receptacle type surge device or most plug in power strips, some power strips do include some chokes that do offer some level of lower let through voltages above 60hz, but they are not your every day surge power strips.

Keep in mind that every time electronic equipment gets hit with a surge exceeding its rated voltage, the elements within the transistors, diodes, triacs, and other devices that make up the electronics of the equipment are slowly eaten away, and eventually fail shortening the life of the equipment, even if the voltage is only there for a nano second, while MOV's can reduce the amount of damage some what they can't totally eliminate it as the let through voltages are still to high, most all transients spikes are a high frequency event much higher then the 60hz frequency we used, a good example of this is have you ever heard a pop in speakers when a load is turned off or on, this is a transient that just hit your amplifier causing it to produce the pop, I used to do large PA systems for clubs, and it was always a problem if the DJ or band would sequence the turn on of the equipment in the wrong order by turning on the amps first, or turning them off last, I have lost a few HF horns because of it, when I found that using the Trip Lites ISO BAR Ultra 4's would totally eliminate the pops when the equipment was powered through one, this told me they do an excellent job of blocking anything above the 60hz level.

Over the years I have notice that my electronic equipment when protected by this level of protection would last seemingly forever, and not that I have any interest in the Trip Lite company I have been using their equipment for a long time as they have been in the game for a long time, there are other brands that also offer this level of protection but not many.

Take a look at the specs for even the Ultra 4 unit, and you will see what I'm talking about when compared to the above receptacle surge protection: Trip Lite Ultra 4
Read the overview then click on the specifications tab at the top of the page to see the whole spec's and compare them to the above receptacles spec's and you should see the difference at what to look for in protecting your equipment.

Throwing money at anything less is well just giving you a false sense of security as you will end up spending more in repairing your equipment, and thats how I really feel about surge suppression, which is why I made the statement that I'm not fond of receptacle type surge devices.
 

RustyShackleford

Senior Member
Location
NC
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electrical engineer
Damn, thank you very much for the tutorial. At $36 at Amazon (Prime), that Trip-Lite doesn't seem like that high a price to pay for the excellent protection. The Bryant quadplex thing (that I originally posted about) is $40+. I found a lot of 10 of them for $100, which is why I was asking. I just had a couple of 2-gang outlet boxes to finish, which is why I was looking in the first place, and then I saw the surge-suppression option and this great deal. But as you say, it sounds like a false sense of security.
 

ELA

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Occupation
Electrical Test Engineer

roger

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Retired Electrician
Bump (hope that's kosher).

Really, no one here knows about these ? Can't imagine where else to ask. I'm especially curious if the surge suppressors are good - do they protect well, do they interrupt inappropriately, etc.

We installed probably 100 of these (Hubbell) at a school around 12 years ago and never heard anything after we were done with the project, does that mean they are worth anything, I don't know.

Roger
 

RustyShackleford

Senior Member
Location
NC
Occupation
electrical engineer
I wonder if there would be any problem with plugging one of the TrippLite ISOBAR units (recommended above) into one of these Bryant quadplex surge-suppressors ? I'd imagine not.
 

GoldDigger

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Same here.

Roger
+1
The more surge protection/suppression you have, in the greater number of places, the better as long as the ground and/or neutral that they are clamping to is solid. The one potential exception to that general rule is when the construction of a particular surge protection component (usually inside the utilization equipment itself) causes an upstream GFCI to trip unnecessarily.

It is not like OCPD where coordination is sometimes mandatory to avoid problems. In the case of surge, coordination can let you get the highest level of protection at lowest cost by putting higher energy protection closer to the service entrance and lower energy level protection further out along the feeders and branches.
 
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RustyShackleford

Senior Member
Location
NC
Occupation
electrical engineer
The Bryant quadplex thing (that I originally posted about) is $40+. I found a lot of 10 of them for $100, which is why I was asking. I just had a couple of 2-gang outlet boxes to finish, which is why I was looking in the first place, and then I saw the surge-suppression option and this great deal.
Darn, just realized these outlets need to be tamper-resistant. I suppose there's no exception for specialty outlets (like surge-protection ones).
 
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