Is this sub panel installed correcly

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jcojr72

Member
Location
Southern NH
Hi all,
I have question regarding how my sub panel is installed at my house. See attached photo. The sub panel feed has been tapped onto the lugs of the main feed (you can see the 2 wires in the picture). Is this allowed by code? The reason I noticed is that I killed the main in the house, but the dryer (which is fed from the sub panel) stayed on. Thank you very much.


IMG_20130626_192530.jpg
 

roger

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Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
You do have a problem and you should contact a local EC to fix it.

Roger
 

hurk27

Senior Member
As Roger pointed out that yes there are some violations we can see in the photo, to what extent of course will take a good electrician to go through as a photo can only tell so much, but the fact that the sub-panel is tapped on to what looks like the main service disconnects line side can be very dangerous if the sub-panel is any distance somewhere else in the home, this is because the line side of the main is not considered protected by any over current protection and many times if ever shorted could burn through because there are no fuses or breakers that would trip, this could be a serious hazard if so.

But I noticed that the cable feeding the line side of this breaker is a SER meaning it has 4 wires two hots a neutral and a separate bare ground, it would be un common that an electrician would use such a cable unless there is a disconnect that maybe is also have fuse/breaker protection located between the meter and this panel in the photo, this would make this panel also a sub-panel, while this does give the smaller conductors tapped to the main some bit of protection in a case of a fault much would depend upon the sizes of these fuses or breaker in this other disconnect, it still doesn't lesson the fact that they could be still overloaded as they are not protected at there rated value so it is still a very serious problem.

But as Roger stated, you need to get a good qualified electrician to look at everything as there could be other problems, and when I see things like this I tend to dig deeper as I want to know that my customer will be safe when I'm done, and I'm sure you would want your family safe also.

Also I see a cable that looks like tray cable that is almost as large as the SER cable feeding this panel, but it only has a white and black conductor and what looks like a bare ground covered in a paper wrap, while this may not be a problem if it feeds a load that is 240 volts only and doesn't need a neutral if the load it feeds doesn't have 120 volt loads it could also be a problem, , also there is a breaker that has two wires to it with one being white, I'm not sure if cutler hammer CH series breakers allows double taps as some breakers do, but what concerns me is that fact that a single pole breaker should never have a white wire to it, again this should be looked at by the electrician you get.

And being able to sleep well knowing that you have a safe electrical system is worth the price you pay for a good qualified electrician, just like I will spend the money for a good mechanic for my car as I want it done right, and want to know that if I have to stop to avoid an accident that my brakes will work like they are supposed to.
 

jcojr72

Member
Location
Southern NH
Wayne,
I appreciate the detailed response. I will be calling an electrician in the morning and I am going to request that they look over everything here.

To answer a few of your questions (full panel photo below):

1.The sub panel is not far, it is right below the main panel. From what I can tell, the previous owners changed from a gas dryer to a electric. To get the 240V 30A for the dryer they had this sub panel put in. The sub panel has no main breaker, just a 30A 240V breaker and (2) 20A 120V breakers.

2. As to whether there might be a breaker/fuse between the meter and this panel in the photo, I do not think so, if so it is hidden very well up in the rafters. The main conductor goes up from this panel a few feet to clear the foundation wall, out the wall and the meter is right there.

3. The large black and white conductors are for the electric stove, and there is actually a red conductor as well, just hidden in the first photo. So 2 hots and a neutral seems correct from my limited knowledge.

4. The white wire also caught my eye. The breaker is not double tapped, only the white wire connects to this. This turns out to be the well cable. The black wire is connected to a 25A breaker on the left pole and the white to a 15A breaker on the right pole. Seemed odd to me, I was going to specifically point this out to the electrician.

Again thank you.

IMG_20130626_192524.jpg
 
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