Foreign objects in Panel

[HenryM]

Could someone point to a section in the NEC, if any, that disallows any foreign object inside a Panel. I found a Panel (see attached) where a foreign object was used to tie down a spliced connection inside. It looks like the contractor miscalculated on the length of the cable going to this Panel. Parallel 3/0 was spliced to a 500MCM cable in order to get to the main lugs below. In order to hold the cables in place, a wood (which was subsequently removed) and a piece of plastic was taped to the splice to hold it in place when mounting the panel cover. I believe several other code violations can be found in the picture. The Panel is rated 480/277V, 400A, 3-phase, 4-wire.

 

[GoldDigger]

Could someone point to a section in the NEC, if any, that disallows any foreign object inside a Panel. I found a Panel (see attached) where a foreign object was used to tie down a spliced connection inside. It looks like the contractor miscalculated on the length of the cable going to this Panel. Parallel 3/0 was spliced to a 500MCM cable in order to get to the main lugs below. In order to hold the cables in place, a wood (which was subsequently removed) and a piece of plastic was taped to the splice to hold it in place when mounting the panel cover. I believe several other code violations can be found in the picture. The Panel is rated 480/277V, 400A, 3-phase, 4-wire.

I could see a problem with either flammable or conductive added parts, but I am not sure there is a code section that relates to it if it does not affect the panel fill or clearances.

 

[petersonra]

as long as it is non-conductive I do not see an issue. how is this any different than using wire ties?

it looks to me like he came in w/ (2) cables and found lugs that were only good for one wire so had to go to a single larger wire.

 

[K8MHZ]

as long as it is non-conductive I do not see an issue. how is this any different than using wire ties?

it looks to me like he came in w/ (2) cables and found lugs that were only good for one wire so had to go to a single larger wire.

There are two wires in the top lugs. Or is it three?

 

[HenryM]

There are two wires in the top lugs. Or is it three?

There are 2 wires

 

[Ponchik]

This is parallel OCPD????

How will that work if it parallel OCPD?

Added >> or it has an internal trip unit?

 

[HenryM]

This is parallel OCPD????

How will that work if it parallel OCPD?

Added >> or it has an internal trip unit?

Incomer is the MLO below. The 2 Circuit Breakers above are not the Panel OCPD (not in parallel) rather they feed 2 separate downstream loads.

 

[jim dungar]

There are 2 wires

This is parallel OCPD????

How will that work if it parallel OCPD?

Added >> or it has an internal trip unit?

There are two wires in the top lugs. Or is it three?

This is a panel with two sub feed breakers (ones that are two large to plug onto the bus).
This is a UL Listed assembly.

The top lugs are rated for two conductors per phase.

 

[Ponchik]

Incomer is the MLO below. The 2 Circuit Breakers above are not the Panel OCPD (not in parallel) rather they feed 2 separate downstream loads.

Now that i am thinking about it, what a dumb question. :ashamed1:

 

[kwired]

I wouldn't call this a foreign object if it is functionally associated with the panel or anything allowed to be installed in the panel.

You do need to consider the area taken up by this object and count it toward the fill area of the wiring space. I would consider it part of the "splices and taps" that can not take up more than 75% of the cross sectional area.

 

[HenryM]

Thank you everyone for the reply. At first glance, I thought that several possible code violations exist in the panel. My possible thoughts were the usage of items not suitable or rated for the application, such as that plastic item used to hold down the splice. Although it is not conductive, I believe it was a stopgap solution. Also, I was wondering if the lugs were rated for 2 taps. And the last possible compliance issue I was thinking was whether this would be a case of a violation per 110.12 "neat and workman like manner".

 

[petersonra]

Thank you everyone for the reply. At first glance, I thought that several possible code violations exist in the panel. My possible thoughts were the usage of items not suitable or rated for the application, such as that plastic item used to hold down the splice. Although it is not conductive, I believe it was a stopgap solution. Also, I was wondering if the lugs were rated for 2 taps. And the last possible compliance issue I was thinking was whether this would be a case of a violation per 110.12 "neat and workman like manner".

I just do not see an issue with any of these concerns for this particular situation.

There is nothing in the code that prohibits what someone might consider a "stop gap" measure. Its only a code violation if what was done is prohibited by the code.

The lugs at the top appear to have two screws so its a good bet they are rated for two wires. This is something you could readily check by looking at the manufacturer's literature.

110.12 is a completely unenforceable provision IMO since it is never defined and there are widely varying views of what it means.

 

[HenryM]

I just do not see an issue with any of these concerns for this particular situation.

There is nothing in the code that prohibits what someone might consider a "stop gap" measure. Its only a code violation if what was done is prohibited by the code.

The lugs at the top appear to have two screws so its a good bet they are rated for two wires. This is something you could readily check by looking at the manufacturer's literature.

110.12 is a completely unenforceable provision IMO since it is never defined and there are widely varying views of what it means.

Thank you Bob. I agree that, other than it's just one ugly installation, no code violation can be found in this Panel. I am looking into ANSI/NECA 1-2006 and what it has to say about "neat and workmanlike " installations but I agree that this section of the code is not defined and many AHJ have cited this based on their interpretation and experience as basis for their judgement.

 

[petersonra]

Thank you Bob. I agree that, other than it's just one ugly installation, no code violation can be found in this Panel. I am looking into ANSI/NECA 1-2006 and what it has to say about "neat and workmanlike " installations but I agree that this section of the code is not defined and many AHJ have cited this based on their interpretation and experience as basis for their judgement.

How would ANSI/NECA 1-2006 become enforceable? Its only enforceable if the lawmakers pass a law making it so. That is why the NEC is enforceable.

 

[kwired]

The lugs supplying the sub feed breakers are either factory installed or supplied and are designed to be installed in the manner in which is pictured.

Typical lugs for that particular panelboard are designed for one or two conductors, and the conductor size is usually stamped right on the lug itself.

My guess is that particular one is designed and marked for one 500 kcmil (maybe 600) or 2-250 kcmil maximum.

 

[kingpb]

How would ANSI/NECA 1-2006 become enforceable? Its only enforceable if the lawmakers pass a law making it so. That is why the NEC is enforceable.

Is there a written specification or somewhere on the drawings that say it has to meet ANSI/NECA for workmanlike?

Even then one man's castle is another man's hovel. It is subjective.

 

[Strathead]

Thank you Bob. I agree that, other than it's just one ugly installation, no code violation can be found in this Panel. I am looking into ANSI/NECA 1-2006 and what it has to say about "neat and workmanlike " installations but I agree that this section of the code is not defined and many AHJ have cited this based on their interpretation and experience as basis for their judgement.

I like neat work, and yet I don't even think it is that bad. I would have wasted some wire to route things a little differently, and I wouldn't allow or expect it in a new installation, but a remodel ... Regarding the spacers, they may actually show a concern for a better job not the reverse. Say the lugs fall out and rub up against the dead front all day long, or they distort the mounting brackets for the cover. I have seen both of these many times. Anything nonconductive jammed in there to prevent this is actually good practice. Obviously the more you want to spend on it the more you will appear to care, but your boss might not!