Smoke Detector requirements

[jhayem41]

What is the minimum requirements for smoke detectors? Is there any minimum area stated in any codes with regards to area coverage. For example do we still need to provide a smoke detector in a room area less than 4m??

 

[RICK NAPIER]

Generally this is decided by the building code requirements of where your at and perhaps NFPA 72.

 

[jhayem41]

I'm currently looking for a standard in NFPA with regards to the minimum area required for a smoke detector. I'm having a problem with some rooms in our project because some of it is very small, i'm talking about 3-4m? around 2 by 2 meters. The use of such areas are just small corridors connecting the main hallway to some rooms. By the way the said small corridors does have a door. Kindly enlighten me if the said rooms need smoke detectors or not. Hope someone can help me with this matter. Thank you.

 

[mgookin]

Let's start with this:

What codes (name & editions) does your jurisdiction use?

 

[jhayem41]

The latest edition of NFPA.

 

[mgookin]

I'm trying to help; not trying to be difficult. But NFPA is an organization, not a code.

Let's try this: What kind of building? Is the building new or existing?

 

[Npstewart]

What is the classification of the building? Is it residential??

The general rule of thumb that I use for residential is one inside the bedroom closest to the pillow, one outside the bedroom within 6' of the door, one at the top and bottom of every stair case and/or elevator. Dont place them inclose proximity to a restroom.

You dont usually see many in commercial other then above a FACP or in a storage room.

 

[jhayem41]

NFPA 72, NFPA 101

 

[jhayem41]

It is a new building and it is a sport stadium. Thank you for the effort replying. I really appreciate it.

 

[wolfman56]

This is a place of assembly, it's not your decision to make.

This is a place of assembly, it's not your decision to make.

It is a new building and it is a sport stadium. Thank you for the effort replying. I really appreciate it.

Sports Stadium??

Don't even begin to guess on your own. The AHJ should have marked on the print where every smoke and emergency light will go.
If the AHJ has not then somethings missing. You may not have been given an "Approved" print! The locations are not the electricians call, it's up to the AHJ to demand where they will be located, and trust me when I say your going to have problems if you do not include the fire chief or building department in locating them.

Ask the GC to see a copy of the approved print, there is supposed to be one on the job site at all times. By approved I mean that the AHJ when reviewing the print will have drawn in (usually with red ink) where the smokes and EM lights have to be located.

RW

 

[GoldDigger]

Sports Stadium??

Don't even begin to guess on your own. The AHJ should have marked on the print where every smoke and emergency light will go.
If the AHJ has not then somethings missing. You may not have been given an "Approved" print! The locations are not the electricians call, it's up to the AHJ to demand where they will be located, and trust me when I say your going to have problems if you do not include the fire chief or building department in locating them.

RW

Note that the OP is located in the Philippines. So, your experience may not be totally applicable. But good advice anyway.
The number and location of the detectors may end up being a "business" requirement rather than a firm AHJ requirement.

 

[wolfman56]

Note that the OP is located in the Philippines. So, your experience may not be totally applicable. But good advice anyway.
The number and location of the detectors may end up being a "business" requirement rather than a firm AHJ requirement.

WoW,
I guess I missed that one. Who knows how its done over there. The IBC makes statements about locating smokes in houses, possibly it covers commercial also?

RW

 

[mgookin]

Sports Stadium??

Don't even begin to guess on your own. The AHJ should have marked on the print where every smoke and emergency light will go.
If the AHJ has not then somethings missing. You may not have been given an "Approved" print! The locations are not the electricians call, it's up to the AHJ to demand where they will be located, and trust me when I say your going to have problems if you do not include the fire chief or building department in locating them.

Ask the GC to see a copy of the approved print, there is supposed to be one on the job site at all times. By approved I mean that the AHJ when reviewing the print will have drawn in (usually with red ink) where the smokes and EM lights have to be located.

RW

Electrical engineer, fire protection engineer, or electrician (when allowed) should be locating the smokes. If AHJ does it and someone dies because a HVAC vent blew the smoke away from the detector, it's a problem.

 

[nhfire77]

Electrical engineer, fire protection engineer, or electrician (when allowed) should be locating the smokes. If AHJ does it and someone dies because a HVAC vent blew the smoke away from the detector, it's a problem.

It is a rare thing for an AHJ to specify device locations. That's not to infer there isn't one that does it with the power of statute, but they should need to be (or have been) an EC or engineer.

One could refer to an adopted code and note they are missing, but not choose the layout. Liability could really shift when the AHJ is a specifier/designer. They would have to inspect their own performance based design. But with what to back it up?



For the OP:

Are these smokes you are referring to used for smoke control, for example closing doors?

 

[jhayem41]

First of all thank you for all the reply. The AHJ here only approves the fire alarm system layout and they base everything from NFPA 72. The smoke detector that im talking about is just for detection and will not control any doors nor HVAC equipment. We have a separate detectors to detect and control such equipments (systems). I'm just curious with regards to the NFPA 72 specially this

17.5.3.1.2 Detectors shall not be required in combustible
blind spaces if any of the following conditions exist:

Where there are small concealed spaces over rooms, provided
that any space in question does not exceed 50 ft?
(4.6 m?) in area.

Is this also applicable to small rooms with low probability of fire? There is a confusion in site where there are some small rooms connecting the main corridor to some rooms (comfort rooms, etc.) I've seen the approved plans by the AHJ and there are no smoke detectors in the said rooms. It consists of only (1) light fixture and (1) sprinkler head. The image below is one of the area i'm concerned. Again thank you for the time and effort.

 

[mgookin]

We're making progress!

Code is NFPA 72
Occupancy classification of the building is Assembly
Room "smaller than 4m^2" per OP is vestibule between hall and comfort room (restroom).

Correct?

 

[nhfire77]

What is in the comm room? That smoke may be there as redundant protection for the comm room equipment?

Have you checked all the notes, any plan to cover the common paths of travel for smokes?

Nothing in the IBC/nfpa 72 would require that smoke, from what I see there.

 

[steve66]

The Life Safety Code tells you where you need automatic fire detection. A sports stadium would be an assembly occpancy. So you are generally looking in chapter 12. Specifically 12.3.4 gives the requirements for automatic smoke detetion. However, with a sports stadium, there may also be other areas of NFPA 101 that deal with special requirements and special exceptions.

Just off the cuff, I think it's unlikely you need smoke detectors in these small rooms if waterflow from the sprinklers activates the fire alarm system.