Breaker tripping but why

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kbrandt

Member
Location
arizona
Ok guys went to a 1970 mobile home today. 15 amp single pole breaker keeps tripping on one side of home. Has AL wire, took all the receps apart, changed breaker, changed breaker spot in panel. Checked switches.

Here's what it does---will hold for up to 5 minutes then trips. I had amp probe on it and was pulling .5 amps never spikes then it just trips. Sometimes will reset and other times resets within 5 seconds and holds for few minutes.

Everything on the circuits is unplugged, lights switches are off, receps look good.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Or is the paranormal involved here?
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Or is the paranormal involved here?


Remember you said any suggestions.

Try breaking the circuit in the middle and see what happens. If it keeps triping you work your way back to the panel also dividing the circuit in half again.

You alway try to localize a problem and then you have less wiring to check out.
 

hurk27

Senior Member
Ok guys went to a 1970 mobile home today. 15 amp single pole breaker keeps tripping on one side of home. Has AL wire, took all the receps apart, changed breaker, changed breaker spot in panel. Checked switches.

Here's what it does---will hold for up to 5 minutes then trips. I had amp probe on it and was pulling .5 amps never spikes then it just trips. Sometimes will reset and other times resets within 5 seconds and holds for few minutes.

Everything on the circuits is unplugged, lights switches are off, receps look good.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Or is the paranormal involved here?

Is it a breaker with the little test button? If it is this is a GFCI breaker and protect the bathroom receptacles as well as any outside receptacles, and my guess is there is a neutral to ground fault or a small leakage from hot to ground.

If not like was said above, divide and conquer, also remember there may be a heat tape receptacle underneth by where the normal water line hook up is that may have an old heat tape plugged in that has gone bad? make sure you check this.
 

SG-1

Senior Member
If the breaker is tripping in the instaneous overcurrent range then the event is most likely too fast for your meter to capture & display it.

I use a Fluke 337 that is designed to capture motor inrush current. I have tried to capture faster events. The cut off is somewhere around 3 cycles. Over 3 cycles I can capture data. If the event is 3 cycles or less the meter does not report that any current flowed.
 

kbrandt

Member
Location
arizona
Yea I broke the circuit half way thru when I was at the job and it still had the problem. It does not have a button on it for a GFCI and has no water line heat tape. Only thing I can think of is that the wire is pinched and a stray voltage may be causing the problem.

Thanks for the input kinda lost on this one. I hate working on mobile homes.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Yea I broke the circuit half way thru when I was at the job and it still had the problem. It does not have a button on it for a GFCI and has no water line heat tape. Only thing I can think of is that the wire is pinched and a stray voltage may be causing the problem.

Thanks for the input kinda lost on this one. I hate working on mobile homes.
Is the breaker getting hot? A defect on the bus itself could be causing severe local heating at low current and tripping the breaker. Measure the voltage difference between the bus and the load terminal of the breaker. Replacing the breaker would not necessarily correct this.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
... Only thing I can think of is that the wire is pinched and a stray voltage may be causing the problem. ...

Stray voltage from a pinched wire??? :roll:

Anyway, it's also possible that there was a problem at some point, as in someone continually plugging in too much and continually tripping the breaker, and they literally wore out the mechanical components inside of tit, i.e. the little metal catch that holds the trip mechanism is rounded off from excess wear. It happens. Move the wire over to another 15A breaker in the box and see if that one trips too. If not, they likely wore that breaker out.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Stray voltage from a pinched wire??? :roll:

Anyway, it's also possible that there was a problem at some point, as in someone continually plugging in too much and continually tripping the breaker, and they literally wore out the mechanical components inside of tit, i.e. the little metal catch that holds the trip mechanism is rounded off from excess wear. It happens. Move the wire over to another 15A breaker in the box and see if that one trips too. If not, they likely wore that breaker out.
OP:
changed breaker, changed breaker spot in panel.
That effectively takes out both my guess and yours. Pretty much has to be actual current from somewhere.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Ok guys went to a 1970 mobile home today. 15 amp single pole breaker keeps tripping on one side of home. Has AL wire, took all the receps apart, changed breaker, changed breaker spot in panel. Checked switches.

Here's what it does---will hold for up to 5 minutes then trips. I had amp probe on it and was pulling .5 amps never spikes then it just trips. Sometimes will reset and other times resets within 5 seconds and holds for few minutes.

Everything on the circuits is unplugged, lights switches are off, receps look good.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Or is the paranormal involved here?


You didn't say if you did a simple resistance check with you ohm meter from H-N and H-G to see if you have a low resistance reading.

You would need to make sure that all lights are off and nothing plugged in but that could tell you something.
 

domnic

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
breaker tripping.

breaker tripping.

Time it takes to trip the breaker tells me you have a outside light with water in it a wire under ground that is shorting to damp or wet earth.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Time it takes to trip the breaker tells me you have a outside light with water in it a wire under ground that is shorting to damp or wet earth.
But that is not consistent with a steady current drain of only .5A. Possibly the method of measuring current is not right?

kbrandt: How are you measuring the current? Clamp-on meter? Might there be a problem with it?
If you put a heavy load on the circuit (like a 1000W heater) does the breaker trip sooner or does the time remain about the same?
Can you measure the current with the heater (or some other known load like a 100W lamp) plugged in to check your measurement?
 

hurk27

Senior Member
But that is not consistent with a steady current drain of only .5A. Possibly the method of measuring current is not right?

kbrandt: How are you measuring the current? Clamp-on meter? Might there be a problem with it?
If you put a heavy load on the circuit (like a 1000W heater) does the breaker trip sooner or does the time remain about the same?
Can you measure the current with the heater (or some other known load like a 100W lamp) plugged in to check your measurement?

The only time I have run into a circuit tripping but have a low value current reading was because of a flashover arc that would cause it to trip, most of these were because of damage underground UF circuit in dry soil, but they would not constantly trip, maybe a day maybe a week would pass before it tripped again, I have also had it happen from taped splices when the hot and neutral splices were taped into the same bundle, moisture had gotten into the splice and after a few arc overs it would leave a carbon trail through the tape that would flash over from the smallest transient spike, one was in an attic that a bare hot and neutral was against the wood rafters, after I guest some time it cause what is called pyrocarbonization, a carbon track would form between the two conductors across the wood that would flash over, the only thing that saved it from causing a fire was the breaker was very weak and very sensitive and would trip, it was just a few steps away from causing a fire, In most of these cases it took a megger to find the problem as the resistance was so high most ohm meters would not show a problem.

One case was kind of strange until I understood what was happening in the flashover caused by a transient, the home owner told me that every time his AC unit shut off or his wife went to turn off the vacuum or some other motor loads it would trip the breaker for the livingroom, it would also trip after a good soaking rain, in checking out the circuit I found it fed the post light off a foyer switch which was also on with the living room circuit, when I used an ohm meter it didn't even read anything (of course it didn't rain that day go figure) but I did disconnect the post light and the problem went away, I borrowed a friends megger and it showed right up, using my underground locater with the A frame to locate the fault I dug up the bad section but didn't take it apart, I had the home owner turn on and off his vacuum and sure enough it would cause it to arc every time he turned the vacuum off, it was truly an eye opener.

Not saying this is the problem but worth checking if you have a megger as for cases like this its value is worth every penny spent on a good megger, after the above I got one for myself as it is an invaluable tool for trouble shooting, much happier customers when you can go right to a problem or at least show there is a problem with a circuit when all other testing shows its good.

Another point of advice is to know how to tell the difference between an overload and a fault, knowing how a breaker operates can be one of your best friends because it can tell you what type of fault is causing the tripping, an overload will cause a breaker to trip after some time, also you should notice that the breaker wont reset till the element cools down so if a breaker doesn't reset right away you know you had an overload, a dead fault will cause the instantaneous magnetic pickup to trip the breaker, this will not heat up the bi-metal trip part of the breaker and it should reset right after the trip even though it will trip again, while I don't condone using this method yourself as it is not a good idea to reset a breaker into a fault until the problem is found, most times the homeowner has already tried to reset the breaker so asking them some simple questions, like do you have to wait a few seconds before the breaker will reset or does it reset right away can give you the info you need without having to do it yourself which is much safer for you as well as the liability of causing a fire, as you will never know if the breaker contacts have welded or the fault is a open splice that has already started arcing close to combustibles.

I know it is common and I have seen it even in trouble shooting books that tell you to remove all known loads then try to reset the breaker, which is very wrong and dangerous, it should tell you to remove all known loads and test the circuit with an ohm meter to see if the fault is still there, if it looks like its gone then break out the megger and test it again, then and only then do you reset the breaker, then test each load with the ohm meter to see which one was the problem, this is the only safe method to use.
 
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