Swimming Pool Water Bonding

[bclumen]

I have hit a roadblock in Carroll County MD about bonding the water in a gunite swimming pool. I have a chief electrical inspector who is not acknowledging 680.26(B)(1) Conductive Pool Shells and enforcing 680.26(C) Pool Water on a job of ours. This installation is for a small community pool for a builder we work with. The pool is gunite with a non-encapsulated rebar reinforced pool shell and has no pool lights, ladders or other metal components in direct contact with the water and the AHJ is requiring the water to be bonded per 680.26(C). I explained as I have to many electrical inspectors in our region that 680.26(C) applies to non-conductive pool shells since 680.26(B)(1) clearly states that poured concrete and pneumatically applied concrete (gunite) are considered conductive due to water permeability and porosity. I am hoping to get a few opinions about this since the past threads Ive read have all referred to questions regarding pool water bonding in above ground or fiberglass in-ground pools. Any input is greatly appreciated as always.

 

[GoldDigger]

... Any input is greatly appreciated as always.

As long as you have not done anything to isolate the back side of the gunite from earth contact, you should not have a problem, except convincing the inspector.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Pool water must be bonded no matter what the pool is made from. They make fittings that go in the circulation system of the pool pipes that will satisfy this requirement by bonding the fitting to the pump.


Here is one system

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Here is another

 

[bclumen]

Thank you both for you replies.

Dennis, I have seen the components on the market but do not feel they apply here. We work in over 30 different jurisdictions and I have had to deal with this in five jurisdictions in the past two years and in each of those situations the AHJ had reviewed the code and agreed with the interpretation as I've understood it.
680.26(C) states "An intentional bond of a minimum of 9 sq. in. shall be installed in contact with the pool water. This bond shall be permitted to consist of parts that are required to be bonded in 680.26(B)".
There are seven listed parts in 680.26(B). The very first one is (1) Conductive Pool Shells followed by (2) Perimeter Surfaces, (3) Metallic Components, (4) Underwater Lighting, (5) Metal Fittings, (6) Electrical Equipment, and (7) Fixed Metal Parts. It seems clear to me that a conductive pool shell is one of the parts requiring bonding as permitted by 680.26(C), in fact (B)(1) even states in the last sentence "Vinyl liners and fiberglass composite shells shall be considered to be non conductive materials" and therefore would not be meet the requirement of 680.26(C).

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Pool water must be bonded no matter what the pool is made from. They make fittings that go in the circulation system of the pool pipes that will satisfy this requirement by bonding the fitting to the pump.


Here is one system

Yes, no matter what the pool is made of the water needs to be bonded, but the only time you need a fitting like that is when the pool shell is non-conductive and there are no bonded metal parts in contact with the water. If you have a conductive pool shell or bonded metal parts totalling 9 square inches, you do not need the fitting shown above.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

As long as you have not done anything to isolate the back side of the gunite from earth contact, you should not have a problem, except convincing the inspector.

Contact with the earth has nothing do do with pool bonding.

 

[bclumen]

Yes I agree. A barrier can be placed between the earth and the reinforced shell. As long as the rebar is not coated, like what they use in bridge construction to prevent deterioration, and the rebar is bonded with a #8 bare copper conductor to all of the parts requiring bonding and imbedded in one of the porous materials 680.26(B)(1) refers to, then the pool water is considered bonded per 680.26(C).

 

[mwm1752]

Section 680.26(B) specifies that the 8 AWG conductor’s only function is equipotential bonding to eliminate the voltage gradient in the pool area and the bonding conductor is not required to extend or connect to any parts or equipment other than those covered in 680.26(B)(1) through (B)(7) and to a pool water bonding element covered in 680.26(C). -- agree pool water has to be bonded
Section 680.26 (C) Pool Water. An intentional bond of a minimum conductive surface area of 5800 mm2 (9 in.2) shall be installed in contact with the pool water. This bond shall be permitted to consist of parts that are required to be bonded in 680.26(B). --- There are numerous motors, heaters, & fitting in excess of these dimensions that will satify the pool water bonding thru thier intentional bonding per other refrences.
You may have already bonded the water

 

[bclumen]

I completely agree that the water has to be bonded. The pump impeller is probably plastic of somesort, there is no heater and the internals of the filtration tank are not metallic, so the water may actually not be in direct contact with anything other than the Conductive Pool Shell.
mwm1752 - are you not considering the conductive, porous concrete pool shell as a bonded part in direct contact with the water? The NEC also takes a plastered and painted concrete surface into consideration and calls that a conductive pools shell. If the vessel is listed as conductive and bonded to and holding the water, wouldn't that be considered "a bonded part in direct contact with the water?

 

[Gregg Harris]

I completely agree that the water has to be bonded. The pump impeller is probably plastic of somesort, there is no heater and the internals of the filtration tank are not metallic, so the water may actually not be in direct contact with anything other than the Conductive Pool Shell.
mwm1752 - are you not considering the conductive, porous concrete pool shell as a bonded part in direct contact with the water? The NEC also takes a plastered and painted concrete surface into consideration and calls that a conductive pools shell. If the vessel is listed as conductive and bonded to and holding the water, wouldn't that be considered "a bonded part in direct contact with the water?

Your inspectors interpretation of 680.26 is correct, a seperate metalic conductive item is required by (C) to be in contact with the water. If you had a ladder or lights etc. in contact with the water the bonding of the water would be satisfied as stated in the last sentence of (C)

(C) Pool Water. An intentional bond of a minimum conductive surface area of 5800 mm2 (9 in.2) shall be installed in contact with the pool water. This bond shall be permitted to consist of parts that are required to be bonded in 680.26(B).

The conductive/ non conductive pool shell is used to determine what procedures to follow to comply with 680.26 Equipotential Bonding.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Yes, no matter what the pool is made of the water needs to be bonded, but the only time you need a fitting like that is when the pool shell is non-conductive and there are no bonded metal parts in contact with the water. If you have a conductive pool shell or bonded metal parts totalling 9 square inches, you do not need the fitting shown above.

Agreed but the op's pool does not have anything conductive that could give 9 sq. in in contact with the water. That is why I suggested these.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

To the OP -- is a gunnite pool conductive? If that is the case then I see what you are saying.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Your inspectors interpretation of 680.26 is correct, a seperate metalic conductive item is required by (C) to be in contact with the water. If you had a ladder or lights etc. in contact with the water the bonding of the water would be satisfied as stated in the last sentence of (C)

(C) Pool Water. An intentional bond of a minimum conductive surface area of 5800 mm2 (9 in.2) shall be installed in contact with the pool water. This bond shall be permitted to consist of parts that are required to be bonded in 680.26(B).

The conductive/ non conductive pool shell is used to determine what procedures to follow to comply with 680.26 Equipotential Bonding.

There is nothing that requires the conductive surface that is in contact with the pool water to be metallic.

The first part listed in 680.26(B) that is required to be bonded is the conductive pool shell. Once that is done, the water is bonded and nothing else is required by the code.

 

[GoldDigger]

There is nothing that requires the conductive surface that is in contact with the pool water to be metallic.

The first part listed in 680.26(B) that is required to be bonded is the conductive pool shell. Once that is done, the water is bonded and nothing else is required by the code.

The fact that the OP essentially cited that and respected members have still felt that a metallic bond fitting was needed shows why there is a problem with some inspectors and AHJs.

Of course if the pool is empty, the shell will not be conductive and you will have to find a different way to bond the non-water.

 

[augie47]

There is nothing that requires the conductive surface that is in contact with the pool water to be metallic.

The first part listed in 680.26(B) that is required to be bonded is the conductive pool shell. Once that is done, the water is bonded and nothing else is required by the code.

I am in agreement.

As to whether you wish to joust with that windmill or install an additional bond, that is a personal decision (don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up)

 

[Dennis Alwon]

So how did you bond the conductive gunite pool shell if there is no steel? I had the impression it was not bonded.

 

[Little Bill]

So how did you bond the conductive gunite pool shell if there is no steel? I had the impression it was not bonded.

It is bonded by the rebar in and or around the pool.

 

[mwm1752]

I would agree that a conductive surface applied to the bonded mass ( concrete with metal) can be considered an intentional bond. I do not live in the warmest of climates & do not see pools without some sort of heat source. Quite a few of the impeller housings are made of metal. Very rare have I seen a pool circulation system completely made of non metal items even though it does happen.

 

[mwm1752]

If that conductive suface is metal then a physical bond min #8 should be required to bond to all metal parts within 5" of water edge