I am a one man EC shop in Southeast Georgia. I do a variety of commercial and residential work including new construction and service work. I have gotten to the point where I cannot stay on the jobsite for having to go out and give estimates and sell other jobs. I have a small 20 room hotel addition starting in a week or so and an addition to a blueberry packing facility starting in approximately a month. I already have a hard time keeping up. What I feel that I need is an experienced individual that can work these larger jobs...under my close supervision of course...while I am pricing other jobs and catching small service jobs. I need someone in place so that I can leave the jobsite when necessary to continue expanding my business. I have been doing electrical work for 10 years but have only been on my own for 3 years. What do you guys think? I feel I am at the point where I have to turn down work or hire help. My goal is to expand at least somewhat.
Is it time to hire some help?
- Thread starter kyled86
- Start date
- Status
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
Go for it. Make sure you can meet the obligations that come along with it. Regular payroll. You will need to give up some control and be able to delegate authority along with accepting the changes that may result. If you micromanage, you will be adding stress to both of you. Good luck.
Thanks for the advice. At what point did all you guys know it was time to hire help?
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
When my wife's children started referring to me as their mother's husband. The pain in my body was another sign, along with what you have already described. To much to do and not enough me to go around.
cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
Everyones to busy to answer 
Seriously, sounds like you need a seniior mechanic and a helper now.
Good luck with your build!
Seriously, sounds like you need a seniior mechanic and a helper now.
Good luck with your build!
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Thats a tough call and I think it depends on what you want. I have thought about that quite a bit but I am still a one man show. In theory I imagine I could make more money with more guys and save some wear and tear on my body, but what has held me back is finding good help. Not everyone will make you money. I look at what a lot of guys (dont) get done and the quality of work and usually say no myself no thanks, Im better off on my own. But of course there are good people out there, just have to find one that is a good fit. I'll tell you what I would do if I do end up bringing someone on at some point, I would make them a member of my LLC which greatly simplifies book keeping, eliminates payroll, and saves everybody money
Sounds like you have enough work to put someone in the roll of supervisor or project manager. Done right it will make you more money in the long run and reduce the time rquirements on you. Owning a business the stress will always be there. Try to choose some one already in your employ and some one you trust. Sometimes they will jump at the opportunity and sometimes the do not want the added responsability. hiring from within is always the best first option. if that does not work out then you can go outside.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
a lot of guys that are in business for themselves basically have a job where they work 80 hours a week and get paid for 40. when they try to hire someone to take over their role so they can move on, they find to their chagrin that employees do not want to work 80 hours for 40 hours pay.
be realistic about your expectations. an employee does not have the same motivations as you do. you are the person who has to find some way to make the situation work for both of you. it is not the fault of an employee that they have their own best interests at heart. your interests and theirs are tied together, but they are not the same.
while I am a fan of promoting from within, for many small businesses, it is often found that the people working there already are not suitable for increased responsibility because the employer has selected people who are quite comfortable with where they are and the employer has made no effort whatsoever at developing their employees to take on increased responsibility.
be realistic about your expectations. an employee does not have the same motivations as you do. you are the person who has to find some way to make the situation work for both of you. it is not the fault of an employee that they have their own best interests at heart. your interests and theirs are tied together, but they are not the same.
while I am a fan of promoting from within, for many small businesses, it is often found that the people working there already are not suitable for increased responsibility because the employer has selected people who are quite comfortable with where they are and the employer has made no effort whatsoever at developing their employees to take on increased responsibility.
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readydave8
re member
- Location
- Clarkesville, Georgia
- Occupation
- electrician
The challenge of finding the right man is only half the battle, motivating and managing employees is not as simple as it may seem.
MichaelKelley
Member
Yes
Yes
It is not for only you, we all should take help whenever needed else it may affect our work or schedule. If you need some help, then even a stranger will be ready to help you, so do not hesitate to ask for any type of help.
Yes
It is not for only you, we all should take help whenever needed else it may affect our work or schedule. If you need some help, then even a stranger will be ready to help you, so do not hesitate to ask for any type of help.
gadfly56
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
If you are reasonably good at what you do, every small business finds themselves in this predicament. Even mid-size businesses will have growing pains as they transition to a larger scale.
Your 20 room addition would probably keep two men busy for 2-3 weeks, depending on the scope of electrical work. Then what? Do you have another job ready to go when this one is completed so you can keep the helper busy for 40 hours a week? If you and the helper do the addition, who is selling the next job? So maybe you need to hire 2 men for this job, but again, what happens at the end? Manpower loading for a one- or two-man shop is a bear.
I think your best bet is to find someone who isn't looking for a full time gig. A bored, retired electrician might be just the ticket. Watch out though, he may start telling you how to run your business. He might be mostly right since he's been there and done that, but let him know you think it's more exciting to make your own mistakes. Or maybe there's a younger fella looking for some extra cash. He'll be cheaper and probably won't be inclined to tell you how to run your shop, but will require more supervision.
You could also try finding a part-timer to do your estimating, but that will require a serious sit down discussion of your methods, costs, skill level, and general way of doing things.
Once you start hiring someone, now you have payroll, deductions, workers comp, and a zillion other things you don't worry about when you're a solo act. If your local community college has courses on running a small business, now's the time to head back to school. As my daddy used to say, "Learn from other people's mistakes. It hurts less and doesn't cost near as much."
Your 20 room addition would probably keep two men busy for 2-3 weeks, depending on the scope of electrical work. Then what? Do you have another job ready to go when this one is completed so you can keep the helper busy for 40 hours a week? If you and the helper do the addition, who is selling the next job? So maybe you need to hire 2 men for this job, but again, what happens at the end? Manpower loading for a one- or two-man shop is a bear.
I think your best bet is to find someone who isn't looking for a full time gig. A bored, retired electrician might be just the ticket. Watch out though, he may start telling you how to run your business. He might be mostly right since he's been there and done that, but let him know you think it's more exciting to make your own mistakes
. Or maybe there's a younger fella looking for some extra cash. He'll be cheaper and probably won't be inclined to tell you how to run your shop, but will require more supervision.You could also try finding a part-timer to do your estimating, but that will require a serious sit down discussion of your methods, costs, skill level, and general way of doing things.
Once you start hiring someone, now you have payroll, deductions, workers comp, and a zillion other things you don't worry about when you're a solo act. If your local community college has courses on running a small business, now's the time to head back to school. As my daddy used to say, "Learn from other people's mistakes. It hurts less and doesn't cost near as much."
One thing I've always said, I feel administrative, sales, engineering, and field labor production talent are all different types of mind and skill sets, preferences. The thing is to find people who are great at their specialty and delegate that part to them and focus on your strength. In construction, I've worked with guys who were were great at sales and schmoozing the customer or great with the books and they worked as consultants, independent contractors, and allowed us to stay in the field.
We had a specialized trade consultant who would bid the job and line up the equipment suppliers, factory reps and their quotes, for a fixed fee, a percentage. He would chase down changes. The accountant was self employed, an entrepreneur. They were worth their weight in gold for their part, but would try to crossover to running or doing jobs and it would get unprofessional, there would be squawking immediately, cluelessness.
I would never say don't expand, but many get forced out later with debts they can never repay, handle a lot of money but keep none, or flop around and never find their niche that pays. What I will say is, it's a decision you can let the market make for you. If you can expand profitably, do it. If the profits are not there, do not expand thinking the profits will come, it does not work that way. With payroll, the expenses and debt burden can be more than you can imagine, and the receivables you did plan on can be unreliable.
A lot depends on having the right type of customer who is willing to pay what it costs, plus allow you to take home a profit. If the customers are not willing to allow the workman his wages plus profit, which is the norm in many markets the customer is playing with monopoly money, the market is telling you no, you cannot expand. If you can work and stuff money in your pocket at the same time, do it for as long as that condition lasts and know when to rightsize as market conditions dictate.
I would trade labor with other E1's and charge 50/hr. I've been called by guys, friends, and they say, I bid all this stuff and I'm buried and need help. I say "for 50/hr" and it's too much for them. I tell them, well you have all this work because you underbid the market and could owe at the end of the job, be underwater. It is a lot easier to not fall into debt on the job than it is to try to dig yourself out of the hole after you have fallen in. The smart play in that situation would be to do less work but the better quality, better paying jobs and avoid the money losers.
To make payroll and run crews, you really need the gift of making the money come in faster than it goes out.
We had a specialized trade consultant who would bid the job and line up the equipment suppliers, factory reps and their quotes, for a fixed fee, a percentage. He would chase down changes. The accountant was self employed, an entrepreneur. They were worth their weight in gold for their part, but would try to crossover to running or doing jobs and it would get unprofessional, there would be squawking immediately, cluelessness.
I would never say don't expand, but many get forced out later with debts they can never repay, handle a lot of money but keep none, or flop around and never find their niche that pays. What I will say is, it's a decision you can let the market make for you. If you can expand profitably, do it. If the profits are not there, do not expand thinking the profits will come, it does not work that way. With payroll, the expenses and debt burden can be more than you can imagine, and the receivables you did plan on can be unreliable.
A lot depends on having the right type of customer who is willing to pay what it costs, plus allow you to take home a profit. If the customers are not willing to allow the workman his wages plus profit, which is the norm in many markets the customer is playing with monopoly money, the market is telling you no, you cannot expand. If you can work and stuff money in your pocket at the same time, do it for as long as that condition lasts and know when to rightsize as market conditions dictate.
I would trade labor with other E1's and charge 50/hr. I've been called by guys, friends, and they say, I bid all this stuff and I'm buried and need help. I say "for 50/hr" and it's too much for them. I tell them, well you have all this work because you underbid the market and could owe at the end of the job, be underwater. It is a lot easier to not fall into debt on the job than it is to try to dig yourself out of the hole after you have fallen in. The smart play in that situation would be to do less work but the better quality, better paying jobs and avoid the money losers.
To make payroll and run crews, you really need the gift of making the money come in faster than it goes out.
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weressl
Esteemed Member
Everyones to busy to answer
Seriously, sounds like you need a seniior mechanic and a helper now.
Good luck with your build!
It may be that your best bet would be to find one senior permanent guy and several others who are willing to work it as a part time second job, for fill in. You and your main man can cover overlapping times of 10 hours each day with 14 hours working days and your crew can spread over that time.
dduffee260
Senior Member
- Location
- Texas
You should have had the employees already staffed out before you bid the 20 room project. There will be some ups and downs to having employees. The pay is a tricky part. I know a lot of people on here yell about being underpaid and in some cases that may be correct.
Here is what I have found out after 19 years and a few hundred employees. You pay the person the going rate for a starting electrician in your area. If they perform well then they deserve more money. if they blew smoke at you and do not know what they are doing they get terminated, like right then.
Just remember they can only do so much, and do not think they will work as long, as fast and as hard as you do. Maybe 1 in 300 might but they are rare.
Good luck on your projects and keep us in the know.
Here is what I have found out after 19 years and a few hundred employees. You pay the person the going rate for a starting electrician in your area. If they perform well then they deserve more money. if they blew smoke at you and do not know what they are doing they get terminated, like right then.
Just remember they can only do so much, and do not think they will work as long, as fast and as hard as you do. Maybe 1 in 300 might but they are rare.
Good luck on your projects and keep us in the know.
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
I agree with Dan. The only thing worse than not making money is losing money. That can happen real easy on these low ball type jobs.
I didn't know I lowballed it lol
gadfly56
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
My crystal ball is busted, how did you determine he low-balled these jobs??
I would like to agree with me too, but the insight comes far too late after the experience. I spent most of my life in the zone where it felt good to be busy even if there was no money. If I was really on target, what I should not have done. Did pay all my bills and debts.
It was easy to read. A 20 bed motel addition is a GC job. The GC will shop it looking for someone to make a mistake on the bid, then scream, swear, and lie to the subs to get it manned for the usually too short schedule. Are they going to give six months to build it or three? And there are enough special systems to trip up on costwise, fire alarm, security, low voltage cabling. I would guess the schedule would be the biggest factor.
You could always get temps from Craigslist.
The blueberry processor could be the better job, maybe working direct for the owner and landing the account, build and maintain, plus an entry to an interesting business type.
Really depends on what part of the business you prefer. If you want to stay in the field with the tools, you will need help for the office, sales, managing the customers and suppliers. If you want the business part for yourself, you will need electrical production talent you can trust and depend on. You would have an idea of what kind or size of business, where you see yourself in the future.
emfforhire
Member
- Location
- New Orleans, La., USA
Hiring and Payroll
Hiring and Payroll
I don't know how you are paying yourself but I totally recommend a payroll service to handle all aspects of doing payroll. I find it very cost effective. They do all aspects of payroll and even file reports with the Feds and state. I now just call in or text total hours and in a mater of minutes I get a total gross payroll number that I just transfer from one account to another. We use direct deposit so there is no running checks all over. I only wish this was around when I started my company. I could have saved file cabinets full of paper work.
Hiring and Payroll
I don't know how you are paying yourself but I totally recommend a payroll service to handle all aspects of doing payroll. I find it very cost effective. They do all aspects of payroll and even file reports with the Feds and state. I now just call in or text total hours and in a mater of minutes I get a total gross payroll number that I just transfer from one account to another. We use direct deposit so there is no running checks all over. I only wish this was around when I started my company. I could have saved file cabinets full of paper work.
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