Cutler Hammer AFCI in GE Panel

[izak]

OK. I have an intermittent tripping issue with combination-type GE AFCI breakers.

The original breakers (about 6 years old) were replaced with more of the same type, due to this intermittent issue.

Per a phone conversation with a local GE rep, I am considering replacing one of the breakers with a CH-type Cutler Hammer breaker, and waiting to see if the problem persists.
GE rep told me that about 5 or 6 years ago, there were alot of nuisance issues with GE combination-type AFCIs. The recommended fix was to install Cutler-Hammer AFCIs.

They told me that the Cutler Hammer breakers were listed to be used in other panels besides Cutler-Hammer, and GE was specifically named in that listing.

I know i can physically swap them out, but i really want to find the actual language in the listing that permits this. If anyone knows where i can find this, or has already dealt with this specific issue, I would be very pleased to know all that I can.

The only thing left to do in this troubleshooting adventure is a device-by-device, piece-by-peice visual inspection/replacement, and that will be time consuming and costly as these trip issues sometimes take months to occur, with no detectable pattern to the fault.


thank you in advance
Izak

 

[suemarkp]

Question is which type of C-H breaker. I can pretty much guarantee the CH series will not fit. The BR series will, but I don't think they are listed for GE panels (and may not fit properly). Their CL Classified Replacement series may be listed for GE panels. If so, need to see if they have a CL series AFCI.

 

[growler]

OK. I have an intermittent tripping issue with combination-type GE AFCI breakers.

The original breakers (about 6 years old) were replaced with more of the same type, due to this intermittent issue.


that will be time consuming and costly as these trip issues sometimes take months to occur, with no detectable pattern to the faults.

Look at the problem useing some sort of logic.

GE AFCI breakers are used at other locations every day without problems.

These particular breakers may take months to trip.

Who says these breakers are at fault? The owners may have appliances with problems or there may actually be a loose connection that only shows up under certain conditions.


Just because GE had problems at one time doesn't mean that their new breakers have problems. I replaced some recalled breakers from Square-D and never had any problems.

I wouldn't count on changing brands of breakers as a problem solver.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't think you will ever get a clear answer to this issue. I would try it and see if the issue is the breaker but there are many different generations of ge afci that can be used. GE has a hotline for afci

 

[izak]

my mistake on the CH series

i understand where youre coming from and I get the two mixed up frequently as I am not a CH man

please, everyone else understand that i am not looking for a breaker to be my problem; I have 6 months of troubleshooting involved in this plus the previous original contractor who recommended that the homeowner replace AFCI with standard breakers


this is an EXPERIMENT

if the CutlerHammer breaker will hold without problems, then I will have a new angle with which to approach the issue.

I have exhausted all other troubleshooting issues BESIDES replacing equipment (ceiling fans, etc)



I dont need troubleshooting tips.


I need listing DATA

thank you

 

[izak]

by the way

it seems impossible for most anyone to answer the ACTUAL QUESTION
which has to do with THE LISTING

im not asking if anyone thinks if this will solve my problem

i didnt ask for advice on the issue. I have spent countless hours approaching this problem in a manner that no other redneck southern 'electricians' will try.

this is only one more step in the troubleshooting process

around here, they install AFCI breakers until they get a CO and then pull them out and replace with standard breakers. I Dont work that way.

is there anyone who can help me actually READ the UL listing so i can get past everyones OPINION??

 

[suemarkp]

You'll have to search the CH documents for exactly what you want. Classified Replacement breakers are a debatable subject. But CH says their CL AFCI breaker can replace GE THQL breakers. Start with this link (see page 2 and it will rotate to normal). You'll have to dig deeper if you want more info: http://ccs.dogpile.com/ClickHandler...ICm1Q==&hash=D7E535B8734F41AD42CA7C2C4362C5B8

 

[augie47]

Good link, Mark
Seems to sum it up nicely.

 

[mjf]

OK. I have an intermittent tripping issue with combination-type GE AFCI breakers.

The original breakers (about 6 years old) were replaced with more of the same type, due to this intermittent issue.

Per a phone conversation with a local GE rep, I am considering replacing one of the breakers with a CH-type Cutler Hammer breaker, and waiting to see if the problem persists.
GE rep told me that about 5 or 6 years ago, there were alot of nuisance issues with GE combination-type AFCIs. The recommended fix was to install Cutler-Hammer AFCIs.

They told me that the Cutler Hammer breakers were listed to be used in other panels besides Cutler-Hammer, and GE was specifically named in that listing.

I know i can physically swap them out, but i really want to find the actual language in the listing that permits this. If anyone knows where i can find this, or has already dealt with this specific issue, I would be very pleased to know all that I can.

The only thing left to do in this troubleshooting adventure is a device-by-device, piece-by-peice visual inspection/replacement, and that will be time consuming and costly as these trip issues sometimes take months to occur, with no detectable pattern to the fault.


thank you in advance
Izak

After reading the rest of the replies I would get back in touch with the GE rep and have him personally send or fax you the paperwork you need. If it's his fix then he MUST be able to back it up with documentation.

 

[kbsparky]

We had a similar problem with a newly installed GE AFCI breaker nuisance tripping. It would trip out at random times --- sometimes it could be reset right away, while other times it would not.

I replaced the offending breaker with a newer SIEMENS type breaker. The Siemens breakers were once bought by GE in bulk, and they put a GE label on them. While GE now appears to make their own, there are a bunch of Siemens breakers out there with GE labels on them.

The thing about the SIEMENS breakers is they have some LED lights on them that assist with diagnosis of tripping problems. Depending on which lights appear when you reset the breaker, you can determine whether it tripped from an arc fault, overload, or short circuit condition.

After the replacement was made, it has NOT tripped out since. Our final diagnosis at this point is the GE breaker was junk, and there is nothing wrong with the wiring, devices, or fixtures.