408.36 and more

[Buck Parrish]

In the 2005 code 408.36 Did not allow for lighting and branch circuits to be used as one of your mains when using six breakers as the panels mains. The 2008 Code done away with that and changed much of 408.36 and 408.34,


Here's what I have. From the home panel, I fed a brand new office . It looks real nice inside and outside. It's built just like a house. No bath or kitchen, though. It's an on site, stick built 12x12 building. It's a heated office with new carpet, a desk, computer and phone in it. It has nice sheet rock walls, it looks just like the interior of a new home. The inspector says the outlets need to be gfci protected. What do you say ?

I installed a 90 in the home panel and fed the new office building. The inspector says the little outside office panel needs a main. It has 3 single pole breakers and a two pole 40 that feeds a second building. The other building it feeds only has one 15 amp single pole in it. He says it needs a main, too. What do you say?

He also said the second unfinished building needed a gfci in it. But it had it! He just didn't look at it good enough. Perhaps he thought it was a decorative outlet.

I wasn't their and have not talked to the inspector yet.

 

[jusme123]

225.32


http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=139502&p=1333839#post1333839

 

[jusme123]

210.8(A)(2) for GFI requirement

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The second building disconnect rule requires that the means of disconnect be suitable for use as service equipment. When you look at the details in the instructions for your panels, you will find that they are suitable for use as service equipment, only when they have a "main" breaker installed.

 

[Buck Parrish]

............okay, thanks

 

[Dennis Alwon]

IMO if the second and third building are at grade level then yes they would need gfci. If there are panels then the panels need ground rods etc, also. A sp switch could be the main for the third building if it were fed with a mwbc

I agree with Don on the suitable for service equipment however I have never seen an inspector call that around here-- perhaps in Durham. Just put a dp breaker with a main breaker tie down and you should be fine.

 

[infinity]

Kind of a parallel question to the OP, under the 2005 and earlier codes was it permissible to have a lighting and appliance branch circuit panel with more than 2 and up to 6 mains?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Kind of a parallel question to the OP, under the 2005 and earlier codes was it permissible to have a lighting and appliance branch circuit panel with more than 2 and up to 6 mains?

IMO, not if there was a neutral connection on the circuit 30 amps or less.

 

[Buck Parrish]

IMO if the second and third building are at grade level then yes they would need gfci. If there are panels then the panels need ground rods etc, also. A sp switch could be the main for the third building if it were fed with a mwbc

I agree with Don on the suitable for service equipment however I have never seen an inspector call that around here-- perhaps in Durham. Just put a dp breaker with a main breaker tie down and you should be fine.

I never had one call it either around here. In fact they come with 6 stickers that read "service disconnect" They're just those 125 - 6/12 space panels. Some guy name Wally west of here's the inspector.
And in regards to the office, it's just that, it's an office. The guy sells insurance and it's going to be his office. But I suppose it would fit the definition of an out building.
I think I'll drop a couple of bell boxes under the panel and put blank gfci's their

 

[infinity]

IMO, not if there was a neutral connection on the circuit 30 amps or less.

Which would be applicable for you average dwelling.

 

[Buck Parrish]

These small 125 amp outdoor - 6/12 space panels came with six "service disconnect" stickers to put under each breaker. Because they know the six breaker (disconnect) rule will likely be used. When would you ever use them if it were not used as service equiquipment? Otherwise all they should have included are a main breaker sticker.