Help from Eddy Current

[gar]

130728-1442 EDT

My goal here is to use you as a test subject. Meaning I want see what concepts you get from each of two paragraphs that follow. These relate to power and energy. Thus, I would expect you to respond with your own explanation in some fashion.

Paragraph 1.

Understanding power and energy is important. If a load is always on and constant in value, then measurement of power at any instant produces a result equal to the average power. Average power times the time duration of any desired interval produces the value of the energy used during that time interval.

Paragraph 2.

Suppose a load is on and off during a time period of interest. Assume the load when on is always the same value, and when off it is zero. In this case the average power is the "on" power value times the ratio of on time to the total time period of the on-off cycle.

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[__dan]

paragraph 1: It's interesting but I had to read it a few times before I realized it was stated in the clearest and easiest to understand manner possible. My explanation immediately reminded me of first year calculus concepts. An xy axis, y=kw is constant so kw and time draw a rectangle. The area of the rectangle is kw x t (hours) or kwh. Integral kw over period t, then you described the Reimann sum, the aggregate of delta t x instantaneous kw summed for all samples of kw at delta t.

That's where I had to stop and realized my explanation was gibberish and yours was clear, brief, and to the point.

paragraph 2 is much easier. Electricians are not at all concerned with the ratio of on and off time except for classing the load as continuous or not. The distribution system and protection are sized to the on condition, that's what matters. The ratio of on to off only matters to the guy who pays the electric bill for the usage.

Using the off time to average the instantaneous power would result in incorrectly sizing the feeder for the time when the load is fully on.

 

[Eddy Current]

130728-1442 EDT

My goal here is to use you as a test subject. Meaning I want see what concepts you get from each of two paragraphs that follow. These relate to power and energy. Thus, I would expect you to respond with your own explanation in some fashion.

Paragraph 1.

Understanding power and energy is important. If a load is always on and constant in value, then measurement of power at any instant produces a result equal to the average power. Average power times the time duration of any desired interval produces the value of the energy used during that time interval.

Paragraph 2.

Suppose a load is on and off during a time period of interest. Assume the load when on is always the same value, and when off it is zero. In this case the average power is the "on" power value times the ratio of on time to the total time period of the on-off cycle.

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You want me to translate in layman's terms what i think those two paragraphs are stating is that it?

 

[iwire]

130728-1442 EDT

My goal here is to use you as a test subject. Meaning I want see what concepts you get from each of two paragraphs that follow. These relate to power and energy. Thus, I would expect you to respond with your own explanation in some fashion.

Paragraph 1.

Understanding power and energy is important. If a load is always on and constant in value, then measurement of power at any instant produces a result equal to the average power. Average power times the time duration of any desired interval produces the value of the energy used during that time interval.

Paragraph 2.

Suppose a load is on and off during a time period of interest. Assume the load when on is always the same value, and when off it is zero. In this case the average power is the "on" power value times the ratio of on time to the total time period of the on-off cycle.

.

Gar, I have been an electrcian for close to 30 years, some think I am a pretty good one.

But neither paragraph would help me understand my job and I have no idea what you expect from Eddy.:?

 

[gar]

130818-0835 EDT

iwire:

If you simply pull and terminate wires, and that is your only interest, then those statements probably mean nothing to your job.

If you troubleshoot and try to help your customer in various ways, then an understanding may be useful.

My purpose in asking the question specifically to Eddy Current was to determine what information a person early in their study of electrical circuit theory understood from the statements. By inputting the statements to Eddy Current and asking for a response from him of his understanding provides a means to see the effectiveness of the statements.

A goal of any communication channel is to reduce the effect of noise in the channel. At least for a sender that wants the most error free transmission. On the other hand a jammer wants to make the noise level as high as possible.

In grade school a common experiment was to place a group of students in a straight line. At one end, the starting point, a message was spoken to the first student. Then that student repeated the message to the next, and so on. The message received by the last person in line was compared to the original message. I doubt that the sent and received messages were ever the same. A clear demonstration of noise in the communication channel. Even just two people talking together have this same problem.

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[gar]

130818-0910 EDT

Eddy Current:

Yes.

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[Eddy Current]

130728-1442 EDT

My goal here is to use you as a test subject. Meaning I want see what concepts you get from each of two paragraphs that follow. These relate to power and energy. Thus, I would expect you to respond with your own explanation in some fashion.

Paragraph 1.

Understanding power and energy is important. If a load is always on and constant in value, then measurement of power at any instant produces a result equal to the average power. Average power times the time duration of any desired interval produces the value of the energy used during that time interval.

Paragraph 2.

Suppose a load is on and off during a time period of interest. Assume the load when on is always the same value, and when off it is zero. In this case the average power is the "on" power value times the ratio of on time to the total time period of the on-off cycle.

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Paragraph 1 A constant load can be measured at any point to give you the average power. P x time intervals = engergy

Paragraph 2 Constant power(on) x % time period of cycle.

 

[iwire]

130818-0835 EDT

iwire:

If you simply pull and terminate wires, and that is your only interest, then those statements probably mean nothing to your job.

If you troubleshoot and try to help your customer in various ways, then an understanding may be useful.

My job requires troubleshooting all the time, it is what I do and I am often called in when others can't figure it out.

My purpose in asking the question specifically to Eddy Current was to determine what information a person early in their study of electrical circuit theory understood from the statements. By inputting the statements to Eddy Current and asking for a response from him of his understanding provides a means to see the effectiveness of the statements.

A goal of any communication channel is to reduce the effect of noise in the channel. At least for a sender that wants the most error free transmission. On the other hand a jammer wants to make the noise level as high as possible.

Just my personal view but I find your posts very 'noisy'. To me they confuse more than instruct, I am firm believer in keeping things simple and not complicating them.

To me it seems obvious that Eddy is just getting started and you are jumping far ahead of what he needs.

Again, that is just my own view and I am sure others feel differently.

 

[hbiss]

Just my personal view but I find your posts very 'noisy'. To me they confuse more than instruct ...

My personal opinion of his posts is what is this guy talking about? Every time I scroll down a topic and come to a date and time header I know it's him and just skip over his pompous anal gibberish.

-Hal

 

[mivey]

My personal opinion of his posts is what is this guy talking about? Every time I scroll down a topic and come to a date and time header I know it's him and just skip over his pompous anal gibberish.

-Hal

I don't find them pompous. He does go into more detail (sometimes extensive detail) than most but it is an attempt to teach, not to blow his own horn. He is very knowledgeable and freely shares what he knows. I often find them informative even if they are long sometimes. I can see where they would be complicated to many as some can be long-winded and someone trying to learn might get lost in the detail but I really don't mind as I can adjust.

I like to learn and don't find the meat of what he posts to be gibberish. If it goes over your head or you don't feel like learning things beyond what you must, then skip away. I think your comment was not a nice thing to say. There is a difference in being honest and being mean (I'm no saint either).

 

[__dan]

My personal opinion of his posts is what is this guy talking about? Every time I scroll down a topic and come to a date and time header I know it's him and just skip over his pompous anal gibberish.

-Hal

I like reading gar. He has his own thoughts and I usually expect that I may learn something.

Not everyone can fit nicely into the great brainwashed mass of man. Every bell curve has a place for people at the flanges.

 

[ActionDave]

I like gar too. If I had the chance I would be at his workshop every spare moment he would have me.

 

[gar]

130821-1008 EDT

Eddy Current:

Thank you for your response. It provided useful information for me.

You are an inquisitive and interested person. If you are interested in doing some experiments and you have the facilities, then you could provide more useful information for me.

These are energy or power measurements using a smart meter. If you are interested, and in a location where your residence has a smart meter and the power company provides daily information from the internet quantized by the hour of energy use, then I will provide details on the experiment.

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[Eddy Current]

130821-1008 EDT

Eddy Current:

Thank you for your response. It provided useful information for me.

You are an inquisitive and interested person. If you are interested in doing some experiments and you have the facilities, then you could provide more useful information for me.

These are energy or power measurements using a smart meter. If you are interested, and in a location where your residence has a smart meter and the power company provides daily information from the internet quantized by the hour of energy use, then I will provide details on the experiment.

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My power company provides online information, i would have to check the site to get the specifics. All i have is a cheap Greenlee meter, one of those Home Depot deals.

 

[gar]

130822-1445 EDT

Eddy Current:

To do the experiments in which I am interested you don't require any instrumentation other than the smart meter and data from the power company website. However, devices like the Kill-A-Watt and TED (The Energy Detective) could be useful.

If you PM me with your name and address I will send you two books relative to the experiments.

After you receive the material, then we can discuss some specific experiments.

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