Balcony Railing - 250.4(A)(4) Inspector asking for bonding

[qcroanoke]

My mistake. It is the 2002 code. 250.104(C) uses the words "MAY BECOME ENERGIZED"

2005 250.104(C) uses the words "Likely to BECOME ENERGIZED"

2002 250.4(A)(4) uses the words "Likely to become energized"

The inspector believes it will make the project inherently safer, I don't think he is mad at anybody. I know I am not mad at him. But, as a representative for the owner I have to defend their position.

Anything metallic May become energized or Likely to become energized I just don't think that he is being realistic about this.
However since the floor of the balcony is metal I can see his concern. "Post #15"

 

[infinity]

Now the inspector is citing 250.104(C). It is a wood frame building with steel balconies with steel railiings.

Any thoughts on whether this is structural steel?

He can keep citing various code sections but IMO he won't find any sections that will support his opinion.

 

[ceb58]

Anything metallic May become energized or Likely to become energized I just don't think that he is being realistic about this.
However since the floor of the balcony is metal I can see his concern. "Post #15"

Of course you can see it. If you stand still for 2 minuets in one of your buildings someone will come along and hook a bonding strap to you.:lol::lol::lol:

 

[GoldDigger]

Think of this, if it does become energized what is the hazard? You are isolated from grounded surfaces and would never know it is energized.

Actually, if you are standing on a concrete deck which is tied with rebar to building steel or other ground connection, you will be standing on a grounded surface even if the concrete is not wet.
Does not change my overall opinion any, but....
(Also FWIW, for many purposes, the railing may already be accidentally grounded pretty well if it connects to the deck.)

The inspector believes it will make the project inherently safer, I don't think he is mad at anybody.

So, since the NEC is not a design manual, he feels that he has the right and responsibility to step in and serve that function himself???

 

[qcroanoke]

Of course you can see it. If you stand still for 2 minuets in one of your buildings someone will come along and hook a bonding strap to you.:lol::lol::lol:

That's true!
Our motto and R56's is "If it doesn't move ground it! If it does move, put a strap on it and then ground it!"

 

[tallgirl]

Of course you can see it. If you stand still for 2 minuets in one of your buildings someone will come along and hook a bonding strap to you.:lol::lol::lol:

+1.

Don't anyone tell the inspector that calcium is a metal or they'll require you walk around with a bonding strap around your ankle and screwed into your shin bone.

 

[tallgirl]

250.104(C) starts out with : "Exposed structural metal that is interconnected to form a metal building frame and is not intentionally grounded or bonded and is likely to become energized shall be bonded to..."

I don't see how you described is interconnected to form a metal building frame, or that it is likely to become energized.

As has been said, if this needs bonding, then so should metal rain gutters, metal casings on doors/windows, or even metal siding/roofing on wood framed structures.

Think of this, if it does become energized what is the hazard? You are isolated from grounded surfaces and would never know it is energized.

What does the metal railing mount to? Is the balcony wood, or poured concrete on a metal frame? How far from the railing itself could one find a continuous circuit?

In short, what is the railing interconnected to that is metal? If anything, the inspector may have a point besides the one that is likely on top of his head.

 

[Daja7]

I would just tell the inspector that we obviously have a difference of opinion and we should take this to a higher authority for ruling. If there is no specific code (and there is not ) that says the rail must be bonded then the added expense will be born by the owner of this project. once the owner is aware i bet things get settled quickly.

 

[kwired]

Actually, if you are standing on a concrete deck which is tied with rebar to building steel or other ground connection, you will be standing on a grounded surface even if the concrete is not wet.
Does not change my overall opinion any, but....

We don't know what is supporting this deck and railing. All we have so far is wood framed building and steel railings and steel deck. If entirely supported by the wood framed building it is very possible for it to be thousands of volts above ground and nobody ever feels anything as long as they don't bring a grounded object near it.

What does the metal railing mount to? Is the balcony wood, or poured concrete on a metal frame? How far from the railing itself could one find a continuous circuit?

In short, what is the railing interconnected to that is metal? If anything, the inspector may have a point besides the one that is likely on top of his head.

Reply to Golddigger kind of fits here also.

Here again what my response was to. There could be additional information that may change the response if it becomes available.

Now the inspector is citing 250.104(C). It is a wood frame building with steel balconies with steel railiings.

Any thoughts on whether this is structural steel?

 

[mwm1752]

Maybe he could give you a real life scenrio that has occurred to support his ruling.

 

[Sahib]

If any lightning down conductor is near the said balcony or proposed to be laid, then the balcony railing may require bonding.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Actually if the balcony is a stand alone one, meaning no metal posts, just a metal balcony attached to a wood frame building, aren't you safer if it wasn't bonded, as is no reference to ground?

 

[mwm1752]

You have overhead conductor or is this imagined? Agree with out a point of reference you'd be a bird on a wire.

 

[GoldDigger]

CircuitRyder --- Unfortunately not all good ideas are code enforceable.

Could not resist:
GoldDigger --- Unfortunately not all code enforceable ideas are good.

 

[mwm1752]

True both ways -- good one

 

[iwire]

If any lightning down conductor is near the said balcony or proposed to be laid, then the balcony railing may require bonding.

If any lightning down conductor is near your belt buckle, then the belt buckle may require bonding.

 

[cowboyjwc]

If any lightning down conductor is near your belt buckle, then the belt buckle may require bonding.

This should get this thread closed. If lighting was that near my belt buckle, it's not my buckle I'd be worried about.:blink:

 

[GoldDigger]

This should get this thread closed. If lighting was that near my belt buckle, it's not my buckle I'd be worried about.:blink:

But it would be OK in the dark? :angel:
PM me if you have not heard the story of the cowboy and his new boots.

 

[Haji]

If any lightning down conductor is near your belt buckle, then the belt buckle may require bonding.

But do not stand near any lightning down conductor during a rainy season irrespective of whether you are naked or not.

 

[Michael Hockenberry]

Ask the inspector for a UL approved lug or clamp

Ask the inspector for a UL approved lug or clamp

Ask the inspector for a UL approved lug or clamp approved for a outdoor metal balcony.
Installed without structural damage to the balcony, this must be approved by the building inspector also.