Reduced voltage motor starter

[djelectric]

Hi, I have a reduced voltage motor starter with the contacts submersed in oil.
I am trying to find oil to add/change, any ideas what oil might be in the starter ? transformer oil ?
Supply house said the oil is obsolete but they can get it in 4 oz containers at $60 bucks each, that will be very expensive
seeing I need 5 gallons.
This is an old Cutler Hammer starter you pull the arm forward to start the motor and when at speed push arm back to run.

Thanks for any help
Dave

 

[texie]

Hi, I have a reduced voltage motor starter with the contacts submersed in oil.
I am trying to find oil to add/change, any ideas what oil might be in the starter ? transformer oil ?
Supply house said the oil is obsolete but they can get it in 4 oz containers at $60 bucks each, that will be very expensive
seeing I need 5 gallons.
This is an old Cutler Hammer starter you pull the arm forward to start the motor and when at speed push arm back to run.

Thanks for any help
Dave

Wow, I haven't seen one of those in years! I remember them well. If it is on the smaller side, I don't think it would be worth fooling with, just change it out. Some of the old ones I replaced years ago were only there because of PoCo requirements on limiting across the line motor starting for , say, a simple centrifugal pump in rural areas. In many cases that is no longer an issue so we would just replace them with an across the line starter.

 

[djelectric]

Thanks for the reply texie,
I need to use the starter for aprox. 60 days until a soft start becomes available from another one of our plants,
in the mean time the oil level is low and the contacts are not covered in oil.
I just need to buy some time.
This is running a 125 hp motor on the head saw in a saw mill.

Thanks Dave

 

[GoldDigger]

Thanks for the reply texie,
I need to use the starter for aprox. 60 days until a soft start becomes available from another one of our plants,
in the mean time the oil level is low and the contacts are not covered in oil.
I just need to buy some time.
This is running a 125 hp motor on the head saw in a saw mill.

Thanks Dave

If it is "transformer oil" I would be wary about PCB's in the old oil.
Dispose of the old oil as hazardous waste if you are worried about the EPA making trouble down the line.
It might be cheaper to find a used unit and scavenge the oil from it?

 

[texie]

Thanks for the reply texie,
I need to use the starter for aprox. 60 days until a soft start becomes available from another one of our plants,
in the mean time the oil level is low and the contacts are not covered in oil.
I just need to buy some time.
This is running a 125 hp motor on the head saw in a saw mill.

Thanks Dave

I'm not well versed on saw mill operations, but this sounds like kind of a high inertia load where I can see you may want a soft start as you say.
Not sure what kind of generic oil you could use as a last resort to buy some time but maybe some of the other, more well versed than me, could assist here.
Maybe I'm showing my age here but I remember these on simple, low inertia loads as small as 20 HP because the PoCo was so "soft". It would be laughable in most areas today.

 

[templdl]

Hi, I have a reduced voltage motor starter with the contacts submersed in oil.
I am trying to find oil to add/change, any ideas what oil might be in the starter ? transformer oil ?
Supply house said the oil is obsolete but they can get it in 4 oz containers at $60 bucks each, that will be very expensive
seeing I need 5 gallons.
This is an old Cutler Hammer starter you pull the arm forward to start the motor and when at speed push arm back to run.

Thanks for any help
Dave

It may be something like shell diala. I have a few old Westinghouse ILs that show the Westinghouse 'WEMCO-C' used for oil breaker insulating fluid which is a name branded oil. I know that SHELL Dials is a suitable substitute which is still commonly available todaywww.nttworldwide.com/docs/diala-axbrochure.pdf
s05.static-shell.com/content/dam/shell/static/.../shell-diala-brochure.pdf

 

[kwired]

If you need oil like what is used in transformers or other oil immersed switches, maybe POCO can help you out. Otherwise buying in 4 oz containers @$60 gets you to $1920 for 5 gallons and maybe 3-4 extra hours labor to handle all those 4 oz packages.

 

[cadpoint]

Why don't you get the oil tested? Then you'd know what you have and in the end what to do with it.

 

[ActionDave]

Is there any reason transformer oil would not work? Could it be akin to mixing amonia and Clorox? I have never seen one of these starters but I can't imagine it would be that bad to just put some in.

 

[kwired]

Why don't you get the oil tested? Then you'd know what you have and in the end what to do with it.

He may not need it anymore by the time he gets his results

 

[templdl]

Is there any reason transformer oil would not work? Could it be akin to mixing amonia and Clorox? I have never seen one of these starters but I can't imagine it would be that bad to just put some in.

You're right on. Shell dials is in fact a very common transformer oil that has been used in transformers for quite a while. It has also been used for oil switches and breakers to medium voltage and even high voltage as I recall. Perthe interlinks that I have provided Shell dials is still alive and well today.

 

[Gregg Harris]

[h=2]Motor Starter Oil[/h] Clients can avail from us a quality tested range of Motor Oil. Available in packs of 1, 5, 20, 25 and 208 litres, this premium formulated engine lubricant demonstrates superior performance characteristics. We are also capable of providing them this product in customized packs of any specific grade as per the clients? requirements.

 

[Besoeker]

Hi, I have a reduced voltage motor starter with the contacts submersed in oil.
I am trying to find oil to add/change, any ideas what oil might be in the starter ? transformer oil ?
Supply house said the oil is obsolete but they can get it in 4 oz containers at $60 bucks each, that will be very expensive
seeing I need 5 gallons.
This is an old Cutler Hammer starter you pull the arm forward to start the motor and when at speed push arm back to run.

Thanks for any help
Dave

What's the voltage and power rating of the motor?

 

[Jraef]

If this thing has been operated with the contacts no longer immersed in the old oil, then worrying about the exact type of oil to put in temporarily is like worrying about the type of paint used on the hull of the Titanic.

Just get any type of electrical insulating oil, like that transformer oil, it will be better than what you have been doing so far.

Side note: last time I had to deal with one of these old "one armed bandits" (the official name is a "Manual Compensator Motor Starter") was also on a head rig at a lumber mill. It was leaking oil and a week after I suggested they replace it with a soft starter, it caught on fire and burned down that section of the mill. Not really something to trifle with.

 

[templdl]

[h=2]Motor Starter Oil[/h] Clients can avail from us a quality tested range of Motor Oil. Available in packs of 1, 5, 20, 25 and 208 litres, this premium formulated engine lubricant demonstrates superior performance characteristics. We are also capable of providing them this product in customized packs of any specific grade as per the clients? requirements.

Motor oil, premium formulated 'engine oil' which demonstrates superior performance interesting.

 

[templdl]

What's the voltage and power rating of the motor?

How does voltage and power rating relate to the oil used in a starter? For years Westinghouse has used a single mineral type oil for anything from medium voltage liquid cooled transformers, oil starters, switch's, etc from medium to high voltage. The Westinghouse brand label is Wemco C with Shell diala as an alternate. Westinghouse had been one of the biggest supplier of these devices.
I have the ability to make a Email to C-H friend of mine to verify what they use it n their what they recommend being used in oil immersed starters that they manufactured.

 

[templdl]

If this thing has been operated with the contacts no longer immersed in the old oil, then worrying about the exact type of oil to put in temporarily is like worrying about the type of paint used on the hull of the Titanic.

Just get any type of electrical insulating oil, like that transformer oil, it will be better than what you have been doing so far.

Side note: last time I had to deal with one of these old "one armed bandits" (the official name is a "Manual Compensator Motor Starter") was also on a head rig at a lumber mill. It was leaking oil and a week after I suggested they replace it with a soft starter, it caught on fire and burned down that section of the mill. Not really something to trifle with.

Yes, there comes a time to get out of the dark ages and replace the device which is much safer as well as much more reliable. In addition what is the cost of down time while renewal parts are being sourced if they are even available at all.

 

[GoldDigger]

Yes, there comes a time to get out of the dark ages and replace the device which is much safer as well as much more reliable. In addition what is the cost of down time while renewal parts are being sourced if they are even available at all.

At least the OP is planning to replace it with an electronic soft start as soon as one is available free (down time, indeed). Until then adding oil is better than not adding oil. I think....
But based on some of the anecdotes posted, maybe spending the money for a brand new soft start is better than waiting for a free one.

 

[Besoeker]

How does voltage and power rating relate to the oil used in a starter?

It relates to the cost of replacement of the unit.

 

[templdl]

At least the OP is planning to replace it with an electronic soft start as soon as one is available free (down time, indeed). Until then adding oil is better than not adding oil. I think....
But based on some of the anecdotes posted, maybe spending the money for a brand new soft start is better than waiting for a free one.

What I've noticed is that there are some who want to be a hero by trying to no the owners a favor in an attempt to save them money instead of convincing them to bit the bullet by spending the money to replace the starter with something that is up to date.