mass license

[electrofelon]

Have a few questions about the mass license for those of you in the know. I want to be able to pull the permit and do the work on a commercial project in fall river. I just talked to the licensing board and she said that I dont need the masters. With the journeyman I can pull permits I just cant hire or have a company. Its the latter that confuses me. Does that mean I have to work as a sole proprietor? What is the point of that? Can someone clarify if she is correct or I am understanding correctly? Also how is the journrynan test? I usually have no trouble with tests and its psi who did my washington test. Will it have fire alarms on it? That is one thing I dont know a whole lot about as its always pretty much been a separate trade the other states ive worked. Thanks

 

[mkgrady]

A journeyman can get a permit to do the work and hire a helper. Not sure if it is just one helper under a jman. A master can hire any amount of journeymen and the appropriate amount of helpers. The set up of the company is not relavant but a master must be an officer of the corp. if the business is incorporated.

I took the test in 1976 so I can't speak to the current test process.

 

[iwire]

Yes, with a mass j-mans license you can pull a permit and have no more than one apprentice working under you.

You will also need proof of insurance to get the permit or have the property owner sign an insurance waiver.


Now, Fall River, or Fal reiv as the locals would say might be tough for an out of stater. Can you stuff an envelope with cash?

 

[electrofelon]

Yes, with a mass j-mans license you can pull a permit and have no more than one apprentice working under you.

You will also need proof of insurance to get the permit or have the property owner sign an insurance waiver.


Now, Fall River, or Fal reiv as the locals would say might be tough for an out of stater. Can you stuff an envelope with cash?

why do you say that? If its a state license and I get it, what would fall river care or even know I came from another state? Or are you saying mass in general is reluctant to accept out of state exp?

So was she incorrect in saying that I cant register my llc with the secretary of state and use the llc as the business entity with a journeyman license?

 

[iwire]

why do you say that? If its a state license and I get it, what would fall river care or even know I came from another state?

Well first off they will not know you, and I bet your accent sounds unlike those in Fall Riv.

Second off you will have to show your license to get a permit and that has your address on it.

Or are you saying mass in general is reluctant to accept out of state exp?

No.

Some areas like to work with their buds and are not keen on strangers coming in stealing their work. Or so I have heard.

So was she incorrect in saying that I cant register my llc with the secretary of state and use the llc as the business entity with a journeyman license?

I am not sure of the question,

All I can say with certainty is a j-man can pull permits and have one apprentice working for them. The name of the business has to be that on the licenses so you might have to go with 'Your real name electric'

 

[iwire]

This link http://www.mass.gov/ocabr/licensee/dpl-boards/el/ should have all the answers to your questions.

 

[electrofelon]

Well first off they will not know you, and I bet your accent sounds unlike those in Fall Riv.

Second off you will have to show your license to get a permit and that has your address on it.




No.

Some areas like to work with their buds and are not keen on strangers coming in stealing their work. Or so I have heard.





I am not sure of the question,

All I can say with certainty is a j-man can pull permits and have one apprentice working for them. The name of the business has to be that on the licenses so you might have to go with 'Your real name electric'

Fair enough. Perhaps there is a fall river po box in my future.

I have run into the good old boy protectionist philosophy before and it really bugs me especially considering that most of them vote red (free market)
Ill bet

She said that I can pull permits with journey man but cant have a business. I said wait what is the point of bring able to pull a permit if I cant be in business?? So she said well you cant have a company and can only advertise with your name. So I said so I can only work as a sole proprietor? And she said yes. I just wanted a second opinion because it sounds silly and pointless. .but maybe my mathematical brain will just never understand most bureaucracies...

 

[jaylectricity]

It's a matter of wording. You are in business, but in MA you can not be a company without the Master's License. You are yourself and you can hire one apprentice to work alongside you. You can also hire somebody to do things not electrically related (carry things, clean up, etc), but it would depend on your area of expertise whether that would be cost-effective.

The point of the Master's License is to educate you on running an electrical contracting business in MA.

 

[GoldDigger]

It's a matter of wording. You are in business, but in MA you can not be a company without the Master's License. You are yourself and you can hire one apprentice to work alongside you. You can also hire somebody to do things not electrically related (carry things, clean up, etc), but it would depend on your area of expertise whether that would be cost-effective.

The point of the Master's License is to educate you on running an electrical contracting business in MA.

If Mass is like California in this respect, there is a dollar limit to the cost of a job, above which you must have a contractor's license of one form or another before you can do the work.

PS: What do you expect from a town most famous because of Lizzie Borden.

 

[electrofelon]

It's a matter of wording. You are in business, but in MA you can not be a company without the Master's License. You are yourself and you can hire one apprentice to work alongside you. You can also hire somebody to do things not electrically related (carry things, clean up, etc), but it would depend on your area of expertise whether that would be cost-effective.

The point of the Master's License is to educate you on running an electrical contracting business in MA.

So it seems like they just dont want a journeyman to hire more than one person. Other than that from what I am getting there is no difference. Maybe they dont allow a journeyman to have a business entity because then he could bring people in as officers of the corporation and they wouldnt be employees and that wold be a loophole to the hiring limitation. Anyway the business entity or lack thereof doesnt bother me much, its just an academic curiousity. Ill probably have to take a hit on some self employment tax though i fi cant run it through my corp. Any comments on the journeyman exam from anyone who has taken it recently?

 

[GoldDigger]

So it seems like they just dont want a journeyman to hire more than one person. Other than that from what I am getting there is no difference. Maybe they dont allow a journeyman to have a business entity because then he could bring people in as officers of the corporation and they wouldnt be employees and that wold be a loophole to the hiring limitation.

Not all business entities are corporations with officers, etc.
Some are sole proprietorships, or small partnerships. Anyway, in some if not all states, even to do business as "Your name....", you have to file a Doing Business As (DBA) registration with the County or State.
But if the journeyman cannot "have a business entity" that could mean that he cannot hire anyone, or that he may not hold a (contractor's) license as an individual. YMMV.

 

[iwire]

A lot of guessing when I posted links to the rules.

18.01: Rules Governing Practice

(1) Two or more Journeyman electricians shall not associate as partners or otherwise engage in the business or occupation of installing, repairing or maintaining wires, conduits, apparatus, devices, fixtures, or other appliances used for light, heat, power, fire warning or security system purposes without obtaining the necessary Master electrician license.

(2) A licensee shall only engage in the electrical trade or otherwise conduct business in the name printed on his or her license. Any sign, advertisement or other business communication of a Master electrician (Class A) or Journeyman electrician (Class B) or Systems Contractor (Class C) shall indicate the type of license and the license number.

(3) All persons, firms, and corporations engaging in or working at the business of installing wires, conduits, apparatus, devices, fixtures, or other appliances for carrying electricity for light, heat, power, fire warning or security system purposes and employing learners and apprentices shall keep, or cause to be kept, accurate and detailed records of such employment for no less than seven years and shall permit the Board or its agents to inspect and copy such records upon request.

(4) Any licensee performing electrical installations shall comply with the uniform state electrical permit application and notification processes as set forth in M.G.L. c. 143, ? 3L and the Massachusetts Electrical Code, 527 CMR 12.00.

(5) Each licensee shall disclose to the Board any pending complaint or finding made against him or her made by a court, other state or federal agency or, where applicable, by a licensing board of another jurisdiction.

(6) Each person, firm, or corporation holding a license and entering into, engaging in, or working at the business of installing, testing, repairing, or maintaining wires, conduits, apparatus, devices, fixtures, or other appliances used for carrying or using electricity for light, heat, power, fire warning or security system purposes shall be governed by the regulations of the Board, all applicable provisions of Massachusetts laws, and any regulations promulgated pursuant to the provisions of such laws; and with respect to all requirements of public safety not therein provided for, such person, firm, or corporation shall be governed by the minimum standards set forth in the Massachusetts Electrical Code, 527 CMR 12.00, provided that such Code and its amendments have been adopted by the Board, and provided further that a copy of the Code as adopted has been filed with the Massachusetts Office of the Secretary of State.

(7) A Journeyman electrician shall have no more than one apprentice/helper under his or her direct supervision or employ.

(8) A Systems Contractor cannot act as an electrical contractor. A Journeyman electrician employed by a Systems Contractor is limited to performing electrical work for the Systems Contractor which is directly related to the provision of power to a security system or fire alarm. This does not preclude the electrician from doing work normally done by Systems Technician.

(9) Requirement to Cooperate with the Board.

(a) A licensee or applicant shall respond in the requested timeframe to any written communication from the Board or its designee and shall make available to the Board any requested/relevant records with respect to an inquiry or complaint about the licensee or applicant's professional conduct.

(b) A licensee or applicant shall cooperate with any agent or employee acting on behalf of the Board.

(c) Failure to abide by the provisions of 237 CMR 18.01(9) shall be grounds for disciplinary action against a licensee and, in the case of an applicant, denial of a license.