GFCI's & auto transformers.........

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imtxn

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Hey Guys, Another interesting one!
Am installing two 230 Volt@ 10.0 amp single phase autoclaves to steralize glassware, accessories, etc. in a clean research enviromment and classroom. The manufacturer specifies that GFCI Breakers should be installed.
Let me know if my reasoning is accurate.....

I have to boost 208v to 230v to maintain the opperational speed. So, I'll need to select 3 KVA transformers and put the breakers in the secondary for them to protect my people.
 

GoldDigger

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Hey Guys, Another interesting one!
Am installing two 230 Volt@ 10.0 amp single phase autoclaves to steralize glassware, accessories, etc. in a clean research enviromment and classroom. The manufacturer specifies that GFCI Breakers should be installed.
Let me know if my reasoning is accurate.....

I have to boost 208v to 230v to maintain the operational speed. So, I'll need to select 3 KVA transformers and put the breakers in the secondary for them to protect my people.
There is no general reason that use of an autotransformer rather than an isolation transformer should cause false tripping of a GFCI breaker, provided that the wiring is done correctly. However, in your case we need to confirm that you intend to get the 208 volts as a line-to-line connection in a 208Y/120 service.
If that is the case, then you have some additional issues to deal with:
1. You can derive the 240 line-to-line by using an autotransformer connected to each of the line-to-neutral connections (boost autotransformer configuration.)This would create a greater than 120V output to neutral voltage such that the vector difference is 230.
If you do that, however, you will need to use a two pole GFCI, with a neutral feed through connection pigtail and terminal since the boost transformer primary will be a line-to-neutral load.
You would not have that particular requirement (the neutral included in GFCI) if you used a purely line-to-line connection to the autoclave.
2. Or you could run a boost transformer off the 208 volts line-to-line and use it to create a wire which is not in phase with or the same voltage as either phase line. In that case, the only current would be in the two phase lines and a simple two-pole GFCI without a neutral would work.
3. Or, you could do as you propose and create a new system voltage of 120/240 3 wire all derived from one phase of the system wye. Only one breaker then.

In all cases, however, there is a possibility that the capacitive coupling from the two line inputs to the heater winding could create a net current in the EGC. That was discussed in a thread a few months ago. By applying out of phase 120 volts to the two heater terminals the capacitive leakage currents should cancel out well enough that the GFCI will hold. That argues for solution 3, which could be implemented with either an autotransformer or an isolation transformer. But not a low voltage boost transformer.
 

imtxn

Member
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Don, How did you figure that? I used KVA = E x I / 1000 = 230 x 10 /1000 = 2.3KVA. And X'formers require an additional 10%. So, 2.3 x 1.1 = 2.53KVA. next size up is a
3KVA...
 

don_resqcapt19

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If you are using a transformer that supplies the full load, that would be correct. The boost transformer will only supply 22 volts at 10 amps, so 220 VA.
 

imtxn

Member
Hey Guys, I really appreciate the comments. My system is a 208y/120. Since I have a 2-pole gfci breaker and no neutral in the box was leaning toward Golddigger's second suggestion.

I understand Don's reasoning for sizing the X'former, but since the primary and secondary are series components of the same coil, the same current will be flowing in both. Won't the primary end have to dissipate power too.
Can you help me understand the concept better?
Aloha from Hawaii,
Mike
 

GoldDigger

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Hey Guys, I really appreciate the comments. My system is a 208y/120. Since I have a 2-pole gfci breaker and no neutral in the box was leaning toward Golddigger's second suggestion.

I understand Don's reasoning for sizing the X'former, but since the primary and secondary are series components of the same coil, the same current will be flowing in both. Won't the primary end have to dissipate power too.
Can you help me understand the conception better?
Aloha from Hawaii,
Mike
The only current flowing in the primary is the secondary current divided by the turn ratio. The load current does not flow through the primary. It goes around it.
 

GoldDigger

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The only current flowing in the primary is the secondary current divided by the turn ratio. The load current does not flow through the primary. It goes around it.
It is a combined series and parallel circuit. The load current goes in through the tap and goes out the high end. Some current also goes in the tap and out the low end to provide the voltage between the tap and the high side.
The current going in at 208V times 208 is equal to the current going out at 240V times 240.
The the combination of primary and secondary current corresponds to the power rating of the transformer.
 

imtxn

Member
OK Guys, Think I get it now. See if I can put it into words. In isolation transformers the current induced in the secondary is 180 degrees out of phase, right? In an auto transformer the currents that flow around each loop are also 180 degrees out, but in the coil that's common to both currents being 180 degrees out cancel out. Probably could even use smaller wire in that portion too. Only the remaining portion of current as in a boost X'former has to disipate power. This is why you said the current goes around the coils that are common to both.
Me
 

GoldDigger

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Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
OK Guys, Think I get it now. See if I can put it into words. In isolation transformers the current induced in the secondary is 180 degrees out of phase, right? In an auto transformer the currents that flow around each loop are also 180 degrees out, but in the coil that's common to both currents being 180 degrees out cancel out. Probably could even use smaller wire in that portion too. Only the remaining portion of current as in a boost X'former has to disipate power. This is why you said the current goes around the coils that are common to both.
Me
Close enough!
And just as isolation transformers are made with different sizes of wire for the primary and secondary, some autotransformers are built the same way. There is only one "winding" but the wire changes size at the tap point.
 

imtxn

Member
Thanks eh Guys, I haven't had the need to post alot on this forum, but when I did you folks always came through. Can't say how much I,ve appreciated that.

Again, Aloha from Hawaii,
Michael Lee Evans
Electrical supervisor, The Oceanic Institute
 
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