Commercial Bathroom Hand Dryers

[Ravenvalor]

Hello,

I have been asked to give a quote on installing an 'XCELERATOR' bathroom electric hand dryer.
Do I need to provide a disconnect at the hand dryer?

Thank you,

 

[iwire]

Hello,

I have been asked to give a quote on installing an 'XCELERATOR' bathroom electric hand dryer.
Do I need to provide a disconnect at the hand dryer?

Thank you,

I never have but now that you bring it up it may be needed or at least a breaker lock off device.

 

[augie47]

embarrassing
I've installed a few, inspected more and never thought about it until you mentioned it, but I agree with iwire.
(on the next install I'll tell the E/C to blame you )

 

[infinity]

Applicable code section?

 

[brother]

Applicable code section?

I believe 2008 NEC 422.31(B) would apply in this case do you not agree?

 

[brother]

Hello,

I have been asked to give a quote on installing an 'XCELERATOR' bathroom electric hand dryer.
Do I need to provide a disconnect at the hand dryer?

Thank you,

I believe your disconnect can be out of sight away from the hand dryer (i.e. breaker) so long as you provide the permanent means to lock it out check out 2008 NEC 422.31(B) . I am assuming this is a permanently connected appliance and not cord and plug connected . I've actually seen people do that.

 

[Ravenvalor]

Thanks for all of the replies.
I would like to hard wire the unit so a plug and cord would not work.
I was told by my local inspector in the past that I can only lockout non-motor loads. This would mean that hand dryers would not pass.
I checked a previous thread on this website and found where someone recommended putting the switch straight up above the drop tile ceiling.
This seems like the simplest solution.
Thanks,

 

[iwire]

I was told by my local inspector in the past that I can only lockout non-motor loads.

That is not true, the inspector was mistaken you can lock out motor loads for motors less than 1/8" HP.

422.31 Disconnection of Permanently Connected Appliances.

(A) Rated at Not over 300 Volt-Amperes or 1?8 Horsepower.
For permanently connected appliances rated at not
over 300 volt-amperes or 1?8 hp, the branch-circuit overcurrent
device shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means.

I would think a hand dryer motor is 1/8 HP or less.

 

[augie47]

That is not true, the inspector was mistaken you can lock out motor loads for motors less than 1/8" HP.




I would think a hand dryer motor is 1/8 HP or less.

Apparently not the XCELERATOR
http://www.exceldryer.com/products_xlerator.php?gclid=CM6oqpeoqLkCFWpp7Aod5xwAQA

 

[iwire]

Apparently not the XCELERATOR
http://www.exceldryer.com/products_xlerator.php?gclid=CM6oqpeoqLkCFWpp7Aod5xwAQA

Yeah looks like 5/8 HP, better mount a safety switch right over it.

 

[hurk27]

That is not true, the inspector was mistaken you can lock out motor loads for motors less than 1/8" HP.




I would think a hand dryer motor is 1/8 HP or less.

Below 1/8 hp no lock is needed as the section you posted states, 422.31(B) only requires the lock if over 1/8 hp and 422.32 requires it to be within sight unless it meets the exception or meets 422.34:

422.31 Disconnection of Permanently Connected
Appliances.
(A) Rated at Not over 300 Volt-Amperes or 1?8 Horsepower.
For permanently connected appliances rated at not
over 300 volt-amperes or 1?8 hp, the branch-circuit overcurrent
device shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting
means.

(B) Appliances Rated over 300 Volt-Amperes or 1?8
Horsepower. For permanently connected appliances rated
over 300 volt-amperes or 1?8 hp, the branch-circuit switch or
circuit breaker shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting
means where the switch or circuit breaker is within
sight from the appliance or is capable of being locked in the
open position. The provision for locking or adding a lock to
the disconnecting means shall be installed on or at the
switch or circuit breaker used as the disconnecting means
and shall remain in place with or without the lock installed.
FPN: For appliances employing unit switches, see 422.34.

422.32 Disconnecting Means for Motor-Driven Appliance.
If a switch or circuit breaker serves as the disconnecting
means for a permanently connected motor-driven appliance
of more than 1?8 hp, it shall be located within sight
from the motor controller and shall comply with Part IX of
Article 430.

Exception: If a motor-driven appliance of more than 1?8 hp
is provided with a unit switch that complies with 422.34(A),
(B), (C), or (D), the switch or circuit breaker serving as the
other disconnecting means shall be permitted to be out of
sight from the motor controller.

The thing that tells me that a disconnect is needed is that the code doesn't say if the motor part of the appliance is less then 1/8hp but just says if the appliance is less then 300va or 1/8 hp which with the heating element it is way over 300va as most hand dryers are 800 to 1200 va?

 

[augie47]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that UL covers these under KSOT and classifies them as "appliances".
To me, it's a fine line and somewhat confusing. but since UL states "appliance" would 422.31(B) not apply ?

Guess it is a judgement call if they are "motor driven" appliances which would fall under 422.32
Further complicated, IMHO, by the fact that KSOT references non-heat hand dryers to GPWV which is and would need an in-sight disconnect.

Flip a coin

 

[Ravenvalor]

Very Interesting . . .

Very Interesting . . .

Thanks for the informative replies. I think that I will play it safe and install a double pole switch 20amp rating in the drop tile ceiling attic above the hand dryer.

 

[Volta]

Don't overlook 404.8(A) restricting that location to 6'7"....

 

[kwired]

Don't overlook 404.8(A) restricting that location to 6'7"....

exception 2 would allow it, but you would need to locate the hand dryer above the ceiling also

Does above the drop ceiling interfere with the definition of "within sight"?

 

[iwire]

Does above the drop ceiling interfere with the definition of "within sight"?

It depends if they used clear tiles or not. :roll:

In Sight From (Within Sight From, Within Sight).
Where this Code specifies that one equipment shall be ?in
sight from,? ?within sight from,? or ?within sight of,? and
so forth, another equipment, the specified equipment is to be
visible and not more than 15 m (50 ft) distant from the other.

 

[brother]

Don't overlook 404.8(A) restricting that location to 6'7"....

If that becomes an issue, then he should be able to install one of those non removable handle lockoffs on the breaker that supplies this circuit like they use on water heaters in houses.
I think they have one here
http://www.cesco.com/resources/782113/364555-AttachmentURL.pdf

 

[augie47]

If that becomes an issue, then he should be able to install one of those non removable handle lockoffs on the breaker that supplies this circuit like they use on water heaters in houses.
I think they have one here
http://www.cesco.com/resources/782113/364555-AttachmentURL.pdf

therein lays the big question.. if it's an appliance (non motor driven), that works. If it' s a motor or motor driven appliance the disconnect has to be "in sight from"

 

[Volta]

If that becomes an issue, then he should be able to install one of those non removable handle lockoffs on the breaker that supplies this circuit like they use on water heaters in houses.
I think they have one here
http://www.cesco.com/resources/782113/364555-AttachmentURL.pdf

Yeah, that was my thought too, but I hear the Xcelerator "FEEL THE POWER"! may very believably be more than 1/8 hp of motor-driven appliance- they are powerful! Thus, some difficulty with 422.30(C).

 

[kwired]

If that becomes an issue, then he should be able to install one of those non removable handle lockoffs on the breaker that supplies this circuit like they use on water heaters in houses.
I think they have one here
http://www.cesco.com/resources/782113/364555-AttachmentURL.pdf

But if 422.31(C) applies the branch circuit breaker can be the disconnecting means, but it must be within sight of the appliance, locking device is still optional and not required in this case.