Deitz & Watson NJ Fire 9-1-13

[shortcircuit2]

Here is one quote...

"The fire broke out at the Dietz & Watson cold storage facility on Cooperstown Road in Delanco, Burlington County, N.J. around 1:30 p.m. Sunday and caused the roof, lined with thousands of solar panels, to collapse within hours. Thick, black smoke could be seen billowing from the facility miles away."

The roof the size of 5 football fields was completely covered with 7000 solar panels and firefighters could not go on or in the building.

Here is some video footage from the skycopter...


http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...owing-Hazard-for-Firefighters-222085811.html?


shortcircuit

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The amount of coverage of the roof is a concern for firefighters trying to vent the fire...there is little room left to cut the vent holes. That being said, if there is much fire in a building of that type, it would not be a good idea to put firefighters on the roof to do the ventilation. That type of building has the potential for early collapse. So I am not sure that the panels made that much of a difference.

There is also a concern about putting water on systems like that, where the power cannot be shut off. A study done for the US Navy indicates that fighting electrical fires with water is not near as dangerous as most people think. (link is a pdf download and may take a bit of time to open)

 

[dereckbc]

Yum roasted cold cuts.

Any mention of the cause of the fire? Solar panels are catching a lot of attention today with first responders

 

[dereckbc]

Just curious but with 7000 panels makes the system up around 1.4 Mw. Anyone know what panel voltage such a system would operate at? Perhaps are NJ friends have some insight?

 

[ggunn]

Just curious but with 7000 panels makes the system up around 1.4 Mw. Anyone know what panel voltage such a system would operate at? Perhaps are NJ friends have some insight?

There's no way to tell from just the number of modules. It depends on what inverters were used and how they were strung.

 

[BillK-AZ]

Many AHJ are adopting the 2012 International Fire Code.
Section 605.11 Solar photovoltaic power systems includes:

605.11.3.3.3 Smoke ventilation.
The solar installation shall be designed to meet the following requirements:
1. Arrays shall be no greater than 150 feet (45 720 mm) by 150 feet (45 720
mm) in distance in either axis in order to create opportunities for fire
department smoke ventilation operations.
-- etc. --

Measurement of distance on Google Earth indicates that the upper right array is approximately 235' x 187'.

The Google image is 10/7/2001 indicating that the PV system was installed prior to this requirement.

Apparently covering the roof was not enough, the news video shows that PV arrays on covered parking were later added.

 

[c_picard]

Important to note that this quickly became a massive grease fire, which also presents challenges. I'm not buying the argument that the firefighters could have been more aggressive if not for the panels.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Important to note that this quickly became a massive grease fire, which also presents challenges. I'm not buying the argument that the firefighters could have been more aggressive if not for the panels.

I don't think the panels made much of a difference. If there was much fire at time the fire department got there it would be an outside defensive mode attack no matter what was or was not on the roof.

 

[shortcircuit2]

originally posted by c_picard...
Important to note that this quickly became a massive grease fire, which also presents challenges. I'm not buying the argument that the firefighters could have been more aggressive if not for the panels.

I don't think the panels made much of a difference. If there was much fire at time the fire department got there it would be an outside defensive mode attack no matter what was or was not on the roof.

Here is one report that quotes the Fire Chief said...

?With a normal roof, we would be able to get on there, trench it, cut it off and stop it at a certain point. With the power sitting on top of that roof, that building is not worth one of my guys? lives,? Chief Ron Holt, Delanco Fire Department told WPVI TV.

Early reports say the fire started on the roof. I won't be surprised if they determine that the fire was caused by the PV system. One report said the PV system went in in 2010. The fire started at around midday too.

We will have to wait for the report.

 

[jaggedben]

Just curious but with 7000 panels makes the system up around 1.4 Mw. Anyone know what panel voltage such a system would operate at? Perhaps are NJ friends have some insight?

System size doesn't really affect voltage on parallel string systems. Operating string voltages on a 1.4MW system or a 3kW system are both likely to be between 300 and 450 volts DC. Possibly it could be higher to almost 500, or lower to ~ 200 (the latter not being a rational design choice on a larger system). Open circuit voltages could be up to 600V

Max 1000V systems exist but would not have been allowed on a rooftop system, especially in 2010.

There's no technical reason you can't have a 1.4MW microinverter system, but I think we know from industry history that this one wasn't.

ggunn's answer wasn't wrong but I thought it was possible to be more informative.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

...
Here is one report that quotes the Fire Chief said...

?With a normal roof, we would be able to get on there, trench it, cut it off and stop it at a certain point. With the power sitting on top of that roof, that building is not worth one of my guys? lives,? Chief Ron Holt, Delanco Fire Department told WPVI TV.

...

If the fire started on the roof, I would not have an issue with putting fire fighters up there, but I do have an issue with putting fire fighters on the roof of any structure with a steel support system if there is much fire in the inside of the building.

He is talking about a trench cut which indicates a fire in the building. If you are 100% sure of where the internal fire is, you may be able to do a trench cut to vent the heat and smoke, but if the building is mostly open inside, there will be a large area where the steel will be heated to the point where it no longer has the strength to support the structure.

If the fire was on the roof and involved the solar panels, I would have no issues of using master streams from ladder or tower trucks on the fire.

 

[dereckbc]

There's no way to tell from just the number of modules. It depends on what inverters were used and how they were strung.

I understand that, I design the things, just not that size. I was hoping a member might have some first hand knowledge of the design.

 

[weressl]

Here is one quote...

"The fire broke out at the Dietz & Watson cold storage facility on Cooperstown Road in Delanco, Burlington County, N.J. around 1:30 p.m. Sunday and caused the roof, lined with thousands of solar panels, to collapse within hours. Thick, black smoke could be seen billowing from the facility miles away."

The roof the size of 5 football fields was completely covered with 7000 solar panels and firefighters could not go on or in the building.

Here is some video footage from the skycopter...


http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...owing-Hazard-for-Firefighters-222085811.html?


shortcircuit

Perhaps in another news outlet it was also mentioned that there were some concern of toxic fumes from the solar installation.